Hello, bretheren and sisteren. Recent reflections on Purgatorial Universal Reconciliation has compelled me to contemplate the severity of eonian torment (indeed, there are other Greek terms for torment/torture – kolasis/basanizo – which when transliterated have a “nicer” connotation but I used it here for a good purpose). The following is my personal summation of why PUR might be a lot more horrific than some of us think. I hope its not too long and please bear with me if I repeat some things, many of these are copied/pasted from my notes:
- Consider the reality of the spirit realm and its cosmological relation to our material universe. Many spirits/souls (while not inherently immortal) are currently existing in another dimension (either in Paradise “above” the Earth or Hades “below-within” it). While not every NDE/OBE/vision is of God, we must test the spirits and not write them off before doing so. We have to account for the spirits/shades of the Rephaim, some of the Nephilim, Gibborim, Anakim, etc. (variants of angel-human hybrids basically) that died in Noah’s Deluge (not including the preadamic Deluge) and also appeared afterwards that are in Sheol/Hades now which is above Tartarus where the Watchers are. Yes, a cursory study of Sheol/Hades may lead you to believe it is the simply the grave, but gravedom is also a Hebraist’s euphemistic idiom for terminological concepts such as the “underworld,” or “netherrealm,” where all neighboring Middle-Easterns had similar concepts of the afterlife, just ask the Witch of Endor
. There is actually a more defined term for grave-burial in the Hebrew and it is “queber” and there is very scarce info or comparative studies on it unfortunately. Sheol and queber are used contradistinctively in the scroll of Job. While the Lake of Fire may be understood simply as refining process, to say it wouldn’t be torture for those cast into it is doing a “grave” (
) disservice by underestimating the vengeance of God just because He is agapé. God used many “harsh” judgements in both the OT (i.e. cursings for disobedience, killing the 1stborn of Egypt) and the NT. Many of us who believe in UR fall into the trap of erring and thinking that there is no post-mortem judgement (some think there is none at all and its simply fanciful metaphor without tangible reality or practical application!), hyperallegorizing the retribution of God. While it may not be “forever,” the “Eons of the Eons” is presumably too long of a time to be wrong on this subject matter. If the righteous scarcely make it in, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear? Christ came 1st as the humble Sacrificial Lambkin, but is coming back as the roaring Lion of Judah, Vindicator of his remnant Bride and remnant Body, pruner of the natural and grafted branches of the Olive Tree that his crossbeam stake was affixed to. Paul’s epistles (which cover both the circumcision and the uncircumcision extensively on many levels) even in respects to “Paul’s evangel,” its encouragements, exhortations, distinctive qualities from the circumcision, in its glorious, celestial, pre-eonian mysteries also has many coexisting warnings alongside it as well! Yes, Luke 16 is a parable, but is also a dark illustration of a reality beyond this world. Behold, the multidimensionality of Scripture where exegesis/eisigesis and multiple (not private) interpretations don’t contradict but compliment each other if harmonized correctly! L. Ray Smith expounded on the metaphorical parallels of Judah/Israel and Abraham’s gentile servant (Eliezer - Lazarus) in Luke 16’s multifunctional, multicultural parable wonderfully, but also missed out on a ton of other important considerations. The anthology of the Holy Scriptures with all of its varying genres, figures of speech (shout out to E.W. Bullinger) and subnarratives testifies of the glory of the quantum reality that God created! Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. God’s wrath does serve a purpose, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t to be avoided at all costs. Free will or limited will, we all will give an account to Christ in either honor or shame. If God’s children are chastised, how much more will God’s bastards be SEVERELY, STERNLY, SORELY, HORRIBLY, INCONSOLABLY chastised?! The forebearance of God through the ages also works in the reverse as well!
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- Moreover, if we take Christ at His word when He said He’d draw (drag) all men to Him, it implies some “violent” (however necessary) force (akin to a lifeguard dragging someone drowning out of the water “especially” if they’re erratic in panic, kicking and screaming, not allowing/trusting Him to save them). Some people don’t wanna be saved but upon facing the inescapable love/wrath of God, will need to drown in the metaphysical reality of their sin in its God-antagonistic substance, and all the weight of sin that exists in the proximity and victimizing scrutiny of the “fallen ones” who authored sin, in order to truly be purged and refined from the inside out, and outside in. Then, when God’s goodness is realized amidst their torment, they turn to him in godly sorrow (not worldly sorrow) and repentance, accepting his sovereignty and Lordship, Christ will enter the fire Himself and drag them out as He’s allegedly done in many NDES! Even us, and much more us as believers are in danger of Gehenna fire so let us walk uprightly as much as possible, and abide in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit (and fire
) that we may not be counted as worthless servants, or unfruitful branches befitted for pruning by God’s spiritual horiculture methods. Indeed, predestination is a divine paradox that we are free to rest in but not fatalistically as we are held accountable for our volition and God gets the glory either way! Some will be beaten with few stripes and some with many. All will be salted with fire (that includes in the wounds we try to cover up; alcohol burns cuts but disinfects them in spite of the pain, that’s how we know it’s working.) By His stripes, we are healed, Isaiah 53:5. What will become of Satan and his messengers remains to be seen. Maybe they’ll be annihilated, or maybe they alone are befitting for a continuation of retributive purgation/correction in a time frame beyond man’s before being reconciled. But nevermind them for the moment, as all mankind will be saved, though as by with many suffering loss (of crowns, rewards, allotments, ruling and reigning privileges/positions with Christ, etc.) bearing the healed scars from God’s scorching, scourging, testing fires to prove it! The Devil and his messengers will probably be the angels we’ll be judging that Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 6:13. It seems to logically follow right?
- Moreover, if we take Christ at His word when He said He’d draw (drag) all men to Him, it implies some “violent” (however necessary) force (akin to a lifeguard dragging someone drowning out of the water “especially” if they’re erratic in panic, kicking and screaming, not allowing/trusting Him to save them). Some people don’t wanna be saved but upon facing the inescapable love/wrath of God, will need to drown in the metaphysical reality of their sin in its God-antagonistic substance, and all the weight of sin that exists in the proximity and victimizing scrutiny of the “fallen ones” who authored sin, in order to truly be purged and refined from the inside out, and outside in. Then, when God’s goodness is realized amidst their torment, they turn to him in godly sorrow (not worldly sorrow) and repentance, accepting his sovereignty and Lordship, Christ will enter the fire Himself and drag them out as He’s allegedly done in many NDES! Even us, and much more us as believers are in danger of Gehenna fire so let us walk uprightly as much as possible, and abide in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit (and fire
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I agree that many do err on understanding the “Lake of the (divine-theon) Fire”/Gehenna/Hades/Sheol/the Refiner’s Crucible," however, I don’t want to embrace the corrective/remedial/restorative aspect of it at the expense of ignoring the punitive/vengeful/retributive aspect of it. I think both are needed to have a healthy, balanced view of God’s judgement which isn’t mutually exclusive to either since the demons are indeed afraid of going there (i.e. the Legion asking “Have you come to torment us before the time?”) which isn’t easy to explain away. Particularly since it was created for the Devil and his angels (principalities, all manners of evil spirits, the Beast, those who worship his image, the Antichrist, the False Prophet, etc.) which will indeed serve its purpose when they are tested/purified/tormented/tortured by it for the “Eons of the Eons” (not forever and ever). Now whether Satan and his cohorts are reconciled in Colossians is up for debate, but mankind will most definitely be saved according to 1 Timothy 4:10. God does exact a peculiar but not unwarranted, type of “righteous revenge.” He alone can be justified in recompense as shown in scripture displaying the paradox that Paul calls “the kindness and severity of God,” Rom. 11:22. We do live in a multidimensional reality parallel-adjacent-concurrent to the spirit realm which possesses an imperceptible-unseen (to our 5 senses at least) “substance” of its own; apart from our physical universe but can materialize/overlap, become tangible, and interact with it when called for it. Again, not arguing for inherent soul immortality or anything but just something to consider brothers & sisters. Yeshua the Anointed One first came as the slaughtered Lambkin of God but make no mistake about it, He is coming back as the fierce Lion of the Tribe of Judah (displaying the wrath of Lambkin), He’s gentle and longsuffering but He’s no wuss and God will not be mocked by either believers or unbelievers because we all reap what we sow under the Law of Sin and Death as well as the Law/commands of Christ/God where applicable. We can trust that the Judge of the Earth will do right, and that when his judgements are in the Earth, we will learn righteousness. They are not the end game but rather a means to an end, for contrast. Christ, the Son of Man (and Son of God), will literally rule with a rod of iron during the 1000 year reign, but I have some partial-preterist leanings that allow for dual fulfillment and allegory of the Unveiling of Jesus Christ (and the rest of the scriptures) with the 1st being 70 AD as a prefiguring of His 2nd coming. God uses evil for His purposes and He doesn’t shy away from that. Lucifer/Satan is His rebellious servant, His overly self-confident prosecuting attorney that got the big head thinking he could become the judge and usurp power given to him (typified by Nebuchadnezzar, an agent of God’s judgement on Israel, later called God’s servant ironically after his own grueling judgement for arrogance) and lost his courtroom position with a stringent appeal/grace period. He will be judged after he serves his purpose throughout the ages. Thank goodness for GOD’s kind intentions because we suffer for His namesake; vessels of honor and dishonor, all for His glory. He scourges and chastises every son He receives, otherwise we are bastards, and Ezekiel declared all souls are His. He is the Father of spirits, and the Father of lights
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I do adjure for unbiased translations, better yet, transliterations.
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I essentially believe in a compromising synthesis of the purple and yellow. While Satan himself doesn’t reign from or live in Hades directly (as I’m sure he has many thrones with his main Earth-based CEO headquarters at Pergamos Inc.
[INSERT sadistic, maniacal laughter]), he’s surely familiar with its mechanics since he technically owns and oversees the Earth in its heights, depths, lengths, widths, breadths, its kingdoms, and all the evil institutions thereof as the “god of this world/age.” He’s been cursed to slither on his belly, eating the dust of the Earth 
(some theologians say this alludes to a certain branch of his operations/stewardship initially beginning in the recesses of Sheol), roaming throughout it like a lion, seeking whom he may devour until the Last Judgement. -
I believe there is ample evidence (biblical, conspiratorial, etc.) for ancient, elite, Luciferian-Government (NWO) owned, subterranean, intraterrestrial, underground bases, cities, surviving Nephilim/Rephaim, preadamic civilizations, hyperspace-hybrids, aliens, Antichrists, etc. in cahoots with Satan, residing in the uppermost regions of Sheol/Hades as opposed to the mid-regions where unsaved/backslidden man’s spirit/soul is imprisoned during the intermediate state and furthermore, this compartment is above Tartarus/the Abyss/the Pit/Abbadon/Death (that are also the spiritual powers and princes behind the Beast nations) who are plotting against God for the Battle of Armageddon, Tower of Babel style. If we consider Phillipians 2:30, they will willingly bow after their subjection and judgement of testing and torment per Rev. 14:10, 20:1, v.6, & v.14 for the Ages of the Ages (translated “forever and ever”). Symbology of apocalyptic literature doesn’t exclude literal interpretations fully, rather it’s simply debatable on how, where, and why we determine what can or can’t be literal.
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Some suffering in Hades, the current, post-mortem jail where (a bagillion souls are as we speak) as revealed in Luke 16, is allowed and perpetrated by the demons proportioned (and in some cases, multiplied) according to one’s works on Earth and demonic attachment per Matthew 18:34. Some of them there will suffer the the LoF’s punitive but purgative capital punishment with brimstone (and you can guess why its there). These same folks will be purified/touchstoned/restored through, and ultimately from this 2nd Death process/baptism. It’s an authoritative, culminative crescendo of a divine ass whooping for a gazillion years of rebellion, and refinement of sin’s penalty, power, and presence (since it happens in the presence of the Lamb and His holy angels and since mercy triumphs over judgement but doesn’t preclude it) - the wrath/goodness/grace of God, through the gifts of faith and repentance leading to salvation where sin will never again be allowed within the never-closed gates of the New Jerusalem, New Heavens, and New Earth (though its previous practitioners will). It makes the salvation/restoration/reconciliation of all THAT MUCH MORE EPIC.
! Been a while since I took a gander at it. Thanks, Zombie.
smh) but yes you are correct, I’ll work on trying to clean, clarify, and concisely restructure the main tenants of my argument and its length. Thanks again, Dave.
