There is wisdom to be mined. 
Agreed. I thought they believed, that the Zombie Apocalypse - happened around 70 A.D. It shows how little I know. 
You two guys - have had a tough ‘row to hoe’ over the years on this forum (as I’ve been learning) and are to be commended, in my opinion, for staying true to your convictions.
But I have to go a step further - you have gored many a sacred cow, a few of which were mine 
- for which I have to thank you 
! Turns out, they needed goring.
I believe that a source of confusion for many - certainly for me - is that we have not had (or not taken) the time to follow your reasoning step-by-step from “in the beginning” (2012, on this forum 
) and thus, when you do speak to a question, though you may in fact be answering from a position of insight and sound exegesis, the answer only makes sense against the background of the great amount of study and thought you’ve done; and does not make sense with those whose background is often the untried presuppositions of a given form of religion.
I’m coming to see that Pantelism, in the main, keeps the Scriptures totally intact, though at the cost of deconstructing some traditional methods of interpretation that now look a bit ad hoc . This is hard on me, fellers - I’ve made a few ‘sea changes’ in the past 20 years - going into and out of Calvinism; going from unthoughtful trinitarianism to a more thoughtful current position; from ECT to Universalism; from God’s timelessness to a more ‘open’ stance on that issue - and others, all good changes, but none of them easy. Each change has been a liberation, and I think justifiable and honoring to God (I fervently hope), but not easy.
Does this mean I’m totally ‘on board’? Too early to tell. My past few days’ efforts have been spent going through the forum since davo joined, and following his posts, his reasoning, the responses he has gotten, and putting them all in one place. I will say this: when I read through the assembled information, in one document - there is GREAT strength in the pantelist position. (UP to this point in my study):
-
- the scriptures stay intact, and many interpretive problems just clear up.
-
- In one sense, nothing of substance changes from what many of us believe is fundamental to Christianity. More of that later perhaps.
- -The gospel stays just as glorious, the future bright, Christian fellowship as rich, - things just seem to be made ‘clearer’.
-
- I will stay with GMAC, Wm.Ellery Channing and a few select others as it comes to Christian growth, understanding God’s ways with his children, and other essentials that may/may not fit perfectly into Pantelism; but also with #3 above.
I don’t do long posts, so that’s it for now. The take-away for me is that the pantelist position deserves study and thought. Let the truth come out - I’m sure the position has its flaws, and the way it is expressed may sound weird to the uninitiated - but it’s the truth that matters, eh?
To be honest, it is not very popular or becoming (to the understanding at least here in the mid west USA) to believe in the Pantelist view. I actually lost my position as a bible study leader because I believed that Gods Grace Fulfilled all, That Christ was the propitiation of Israel, and thus all of Man Kind.
There is actual repugnance to the idea Christ could actually die for all sin, and yet that His Very death would be worthless until someone did or thought or believed something… There is much work to be done in the name of Christ.
But the fun is in realizing what scripture says as opposed to what ‘others’ say it means.
Good luck and thanks for your observations.
Davo said:
As I have pointed out on numerous occasions… Jesus himself defines <αἰώνιον> aiōnion exactly in like qualitative manner indisputably right here…
Jn 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
My reply:
Then you have been wrong on numerous occaions. Their is no definition of aionion there. Also the word refers to duration, quantity of time,
not a quality of something, as is evident from the Scriptures, e.g.:
2 Cor.4:17 For the momentary lightness of our affliction is producing for us a transcendently transcendent eonian(aionion) burden of glory,
18 at our not noting what is being observed, but what is not being observed, for what is being observed is temporary[for a season], yet
what is not being observed is eonian(aionion)."
2 Cor.5:1 For we are aware that, if our terrestrial tabernacle house should be demolished, we have a building of God, a house not made by hands,
eonian(aionion), in the heavens.
Thank Dave for your honest and encouraging appraisal… much appreciated. Pantelism makes no claim to have a mortgage on “truth” and in fact in one sense (and this might sound a little weird) sees truth as a little over-rated. What I mean by that is this… in my walk with God I have held many so-called “truths” dear to my heart and passionately so, even thanking God for their revelation ONLY to in time have jettisoned them for some greater truth etc. I came to the realisation one day that in spite of or despite my many movements in “belief” God has never loved me any more or less than ever He did, regardless of whatever present truth I was clinging to.
Sure, beliefs do affect behaviour, but none of that changes God’s grace… it might frustrate the outworking of its blessing in my life, but it’s there nonetheless. Some will say you HAVE TO believe… pantelism says it’s GOOD TO believe. I used to tell people they need to believe in God — these days if it comes up I simply tell them God believes in them. I take a more contemplative way these days and tend to follow this maxim (when I’m not belting someone around the head on a forum, lol 
)…
Davo said:
Thanks Dave and Dave.
We’ll go from here. You guys are kinda cool.
Referring to your recent conversations, e.g. with 81 year old Paidon, are ye?
As it’s said, what comes around goes around.
You’re a joke. Sure, Paidon and I have locked horns over various issues and yet despite seeing some things from slightly differing angles I like the fact that Paidion can THINK, and thinks for himself… could you learn from his example… hmmm?
So much for taking “a more contemplative way these days”, eh. It didn’t take much to bring you back to your true self ;
Guilty as charged… I do have to try harder at suffering fools.
Getting back on topic, exactly how does one “try harder” in the Pantelistic world?
Does Scripture have anything to do with it?
I’m actually a bit more “neutral” here than Dave, regarding Pantelism and Full Pantelism.
If I can spend years in academia, listing to positions on theology, literature, psychology, and philosophy.
Hang around with folks folk the East and various Native American tribes - and partake in their ceremonies.
And be a lifelong member, of the Theosophical Society and listen to their lecturers - talk on bizarre things.
Then I can follow with interest, the views on Pantelism and Full Preterism - while still keeping my own viewpoint.
Which is just like Mary Baker Eddy, thought that her book - was a KEY to the scriptures. I take the Anglican saying of “Reason, Scripture, and Tradition”. But side with Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism, that Sacred Tradition is a key - to understanding Holy Scripture. Just as the Wisdom Tradition, passed down over the centuries - keeps new age garbage, from getting in.
I still have my quirks, mind you. Like the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse . 
Oh man, in addition to everything else, you’re also more neutral than me? Geez, I can’t win.
Another thought is that reconciliation in 2 Cor.5:19-20 is considered by Paul as an “ongoing process” (p.256 of TDNT, Vol.1). The “phrase ήν καταλλασσων in 2 C. 5:19 does not denote a concluded work: “He was present to reconcile the world to Himself”; when and where this work will be concluded is not brought under consideration in 2 C. 5:19-20. For this reason we should not draw from the fact that Paul thinks of the world as the object of reconciliation the deduction that reconciliation for him consists exclusively in the removal of the relationship of guilt between man and God, since the world as a whole is not a new creation etc. This would amount to saying that what Paul explicitly calls the ministry of reconciliation and the self-reconciliation of man forms no part of reconciliation. Paul does not say that the world is reconciled (καταλλαγεις). The reconciliation of the world is as little finished as the απoβoγή of the Jews. Both have begun in the cross of Christ, and both are in the course of fulfillment (–> 258). We can call the world reconciled in the Pauline sense only as we anticipate the execution of that which is present in the purpose of God and in the foundation” (p.257, Friedrich Buchsel, ed. Gerhard Kittel).
The best and most accurate quote your post above contains (since as per usual you have nothing sensible yourself to add) are MY words… 
And now for the Scriptural position, which opposes the Extreme Hyper Grace UU Pantelist position:
Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Col.1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
1 Jn.1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Eph.1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace,
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
1 Jn.1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
Pantelism agrees with St. Paul… wonderful
Which imagination in your mind leads us back to my quote above by the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament & all the Scripture passages i posted that refute your Extreme Hyper Grace UltraU Pantelistic position on forgiveness of all mankind as a past accomplishment based on nothing they do even before they were conceived or born. But i’m sure all the drug pushers out there selling heroin to children will be happy to hear your gospel of Pantelism that they are forgiven while they continue to ply their trade & how you lean to the view that at the moment of death they’ll instantly enter the blessedness of God’s heavenly kingdom forever.
The problem with Sola Scriptural…if you throw out, the collective Orthodox - statistical norm viewpoints…You can make it fit any viewpoint. Whether Davo’s Pantelism…Theosophicist’s Anni Besant’s Esoteric Christianity…Mary Baker Eddy’s, idealistic Christian Science viewpoint…etc.