The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Aaron's Challenges

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#21

There has been so much gracious dissent on this site – all manner of folks disagreeing on all manner of issues on all manner of threads – that it’s very hard for me to imagine that precedent for this type of behavior has not been well established. That graciousness was sorely lacking on the part of Revival. (My opinion)

At the least, I had imagined that Revival might share with us here – disagree with us as he may – our celebration of the Christ as Savior, and Lord; our respect for the realities of Judgment; our conviction in the triumph of God in complete victory over sin. We are, for better or worse, bound by our mutual admiration and worship of Jesus as Lord.

The suggestion that Aarons “challenges” may not have been met only rises to merit if one imagines that a “met challenge” involves Aaron actually acquiescing to anything that might, even remotely, be seen as counter to his position. He never even came close to this. By my estimation, Aarons “challenges” have been met, and answered extensively, with far more “good faith” than he ever exhibited. Kudos to those who engaged him with such good faith, which, unfortunately, was never reciprocated. Jason has my full support.

Blessings all.

Bobx3

#22

I think I’m similar, I don’t even notice anymore haha.

#23

Thanks for the explanation Jason - I’m no great fan as you know but wanted to be fair.

#24

For what it’s worth - and just in case the Mods/Admins - wish to take any sort of ‘majority opinion’ view of Aaron’s potential ban, I think he should be given an extended holiday from this forum. We should - indeed, must - welcome honest debate and challenges to our UR beliefs. That’s one way in which the UR gospel is spread.

But in the short time I have been a member, and in my brief interaction with Aaron, I have formed the opinion that he has *zero *real interest in actually debating the truth or merits of UR. As loving, tolerant and forgiving as most of us sinful human URs are :smiley: - AllanS, you have the patience and the graciousness of a ***true ***saint, by the way! - eventually we weary so much of his provocative tactics that we are sometimes driven to overstep the bounds of board etiquette, and that’s not a good corner to be painted into.

#25

Thanks Johnny. Yes, I agree about protecting opponents–longtime readers may recall that I can be very touchy about people being disrespectful to non-universalists on this site. (Yes, including Aaron. Although admittedly moreso for other opponents, as Aaron tends to be more disrespectful first, which he doesn’t understand or says he doesn’t.)

We have several fine non-universalist opponents well worth conversing with, and I have quite a few more non-universalistic theologian friends and acquaintances whom I would be glad to see participating here. The ones we do have don’t tend to be as active as Aaron was, unfortunately; but they’re also busy elsewhere, and have much wider topic interests to chew on. It isn’t that they don’t think the topic’s important–they just aren’t obsessed with trying to prove us wrong. :slight_smile:

Next week (this weekend will likely be busy), I fully intend and hope to get back to corresponding with no less than three of them on the forum (whom I had been working with while not discussing Aaron’s threads, and whom I have had to short-shrift while working on Aaron’s threads.) They all have interesting arguments to chew over, which they present more-or-less competently. (Sometimes more less than more, of course, but still. :sunglasses: ) And they’re typically well-spoken, even moreso than I am I would say! I have no problem at all pointing our readers in the direction of such fine opponents.

#26

While I have not (nearly) read everything Aaron has posted (and have not seen the Satan/AllenS comparison) I think I have read many of the things people are concerned about. However, from from what I have seen of the Aaron37/Revival postings it seems he is more of a nuisance than anything else. Some of his questions and challenges are good and represent things I have wondered about. And He does manage to bring some things out of people that I have benefited from. By that i mean I have learned from the comments of those who have responded to him. (I really appreciate when people post links that already address things he is asking about.)

I saw this earlier from Jason:

Of course we don’t want anyone to feel insulted by Aaron, and possibly intimidated off this site, but at the same time these are weighty matters and a heightened polemical tone should be expected. I admit that I am not aware of everything that has transpired in the past (or recently), but from what I have seen, and for “what its worth”, I lean towards tolerating him.

#27

I agree that it’s good to have opposition but, unfortunately, Aaron’s manner is not what we want on this forum. He’s been banned from at least one other Christian (nonuniversalist) forum for the same kind of behaviour.

Sonia

#28

I understand your concerns Sonia. Y’gotta remember the comments I made are coming from a guy who is quite comfortable with the tenor of Martin Zender: Eternal torment believers are nuts: video .

#29

:laughing: I kinda like Zender myself – at least I find him amusing. But I wouldn’t recommend him to most of my friends!

Sonia

John Piper exposes the dark underbelly of Reformed theology
#30

Personally, I can be a jerk and I have admitted it only recently. I used to go out looking for fights and arguments but my reasons were personal and meant to answer my own questions, even if I agreed with the person I was debating. However, debating without resorting to Ad Hominem’s was my priority. The purpose was solely to close those gaps in my knowledge or logic and actually see if the theology I was debating had any feet to stand on. I feel and believe, the reason Aaron keeps returning here is much like why I went to forums where they taught something different than I believed. Regardless if I confirmed I believed it or not, or whether my intention was to believe it or not, I was accumulating knowledge but that is only a step in the right direction.

2 Peter 1:5-7
For this very reason, [a]adding your diligence [to the divine promises], employ every effort in [exercising your faith to develop virtue (excellence, resolution, Christian energy), and in [exercising] virtue [develop] knowledge (intelligence), and in [exercising] knowledge [develop] self-control, and in [exercising] self-control [develop] steadfastness (patience, endurance), and in [exercising] steadfastness [develop] godliness (piety), and in [exercising] godliness [develop] brotherly affection, and in [exercising] brotherly affection [develop] Christian love.

As we can see, for some who follow Peter’s example, before godliness, brotherly affection and Christian love, we first needed to acquire faith and knowledge. I have good hope for Aaron, as I know the path he is on.