The Evangelical Universalist Forum

An Open Offer (to publish 700 word EU case as article)

Howdy folks. I’m on staff at The Christian Manifesto and I’m looking for someone to write a concise positive case for EU. Would any of you be willing to do so in roughly 500-700 words? I’m going to ask my boss if he would permit an EU interpretation of hell. I think he is down for it.

Here is the format:

Brief paragraph about what the position is on the topic stated.

  1. TOPIC ONE

A. Supporting claim.
B. Supporting claim.
C. etc.

  1. TOPIC TWO

A. Supporting claim.
B. Supporting claim.
C. etc.

  1. TOPIC THREE

A. Supporting claim.
B. Supporting claim.
C. etc.

  1. CONCLUSION

Final paragraph, designed to wrap everything up.

Additional resources in support of the position taken. Talbott, Parry, etc.

End outline.

Thoughts? I would not be opposed to writing it myself, but since I’m not certain on the subject I do not think I could do it justice. I’d love to get Bradley Jersak’s take on it, and I might ask him myself. If nobody here is interested, can you recommend a scholar who might? I’d love to Talbott or Parry, but that would be swinging for the stars. :laughing:

God bless!

–Nick

*link to our site – thechristianmanifesto.com/

I’d be glad to do it! I’ll be very fair and honest. And I’m as honest as a gambling man can be. Trust me… :sunglasses:

Matt

Nice man. I’ve sent off a bunch of email to various universalists, but I shall keep you in mind. Are you a scholar? I’d prefer someone with at least a degree or two, though this would not exclude one who doesn’t have a degree. :laughing:

–Nick

Or, I could do this:

Whoever writes it out and provides (what I think) is the best positive case, I shall post. Encourage a little eroneous capitalism. :mrgreen:

My boss gave me permission to include EU.

–Nick

I humbly submit my entry:

For from Him, through Him, and to Him are all things.

:smiley:

Hey Nick, no, I’m not a scholar. Plus, I’m sure you knew I was only kidding. However, fwiw, I DO think that I could write / teach a very believable defense for universalism-thanks to all of the time I’ve spent here on these forums lately :slight_smile:

Matt

Hi Nick

I’d be happy to give this a try. Egomaniac that I am I just love seeing my work in print - or should I say on t’interweb. :smiley:

Can’t promise it’ll be what you’re looking for, but I’ll give it my best shot. If it doesn’t cut the mustard, you can bin it. I’ve been binned lots of times before, so my skin is fairly thick. (I write for a living, but am also a thus-far failed novelist - two attempts, both given the big E by all the publishers who bothered to read them.)

I only have one degree. But it is at least in English. I’m also English, so I naturally converse in proper Queen’s English, don’t you know. I mean, I don’t use no double negatives or none of that slang you all use over the pond there.

If you’re amenable, I promise I’ll try and keep my internal sarcasm meter turned down to zero. But sometimes I just can’t help myself … :slight_smile:

Seriously, I’m serious about giving it a go. As I’ve mentioned to one or two other people, I do believe one of the reasons God put me on this earth is to do my little bit to help publicise the wonderful news of His saving love for all His creatures.

Shalom

Johnny

I updated your thread title, Nick, so more people will recognize the topic by sight. Hopefully you’ll get more bites this way!

I’m also going to ping Dr. Bob Wilson, one of the forum’s co-creators and one of our guest authors, as he has proven very capable in the past at distilling a high density of information into relatively few words as a case. (Unlike myself. http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/blahblah.gif :mrgreen: Although for sake of the challenge of paring myself down I may take a swing at it.)

Nick,

So, would you and/or your boss consider 970 words? :mrgreen:

Update: I can trim it down to 723 (which includes at least 23 ‘words’ of what are actually scripture:chapter-verse citations), if I omit some comments on 2 Thess 1 and Matt 25. Although I would rather not. :slight_smile:

You also need to know that because of the line of scriptural approach I’m taking, it’s going to be naturally more provocative than I usually try to present. I’ll post a current draft of the article next.

The paragraphs in brackets could be omitted to bring the wordcount down to 723.

Much of the article is based on the material from my Oct 2011 debate with TFan, btw.

I think it would be great if you have the time to give it a go Johnny. You have such a gift at clear, concise communication.

Thanks John, I appreciate the support and encouragement.

Actually, this would be a very worthwhile exercise for me, regardless of whether or not Nick eventually uses my contribution for his website. I would love to have a good, succinct, Biblical ‘one pager’ on EU, in my own words, which I can use to send to friends or whoever. Plus I am girding up my loins for the day I might get to be able to openly preach my EU beliefs from the pulpit at my church. :smiley:

Hope you’re keeping well, my friend.

Shalom

Johnny

I do recall that debate, and I thought you presented a strong case. I was disappointed with many of TFan’s responses. I will talk to my boss, but I think there can be a way to get everything trimmed down to 700 pages. We want everything to be as concise as possible and setting a 500-700 word limit forces us (including me in my presentation of annihilationism) to be as clear and to the point as possible. NOT to suggest that you aren’t concise, of course. Sorry if it came across as such. :wink:

Possibly rewriting it to fit the structure I first posted of three concise points and a conclusion would aide in drafting down the word count.

  1. Universalism in this age (Atonement – which I personally find very compelling)
    A. blah blah blah.
    B. blah blah blah.
    C. blah blah blah.

  2. Universalism in the next age (God’s promises to the nations, etc)
    A. blah blah blah.
    B. blah blah blah.
    C. Blah blah blah.

  3. Post-Mortem (Including addressing judgment)
    A. blah blah blah.
    B. blah blah blah.
    C. blah blah blah.

CONCLUSION
Summation. Includes resources and links.

We may include various links/materials at the end of the presentation for those who disagree to come and discuss it here. Which I think would be great, as you are all pretty nice folks. :smiley:

Especially you Johnny. Love your heart!

God bless everyone!

–Nick

Actually, I had to write a one-page case for AN because my university holds to ECT. So, regardless, having a one-page positive by itself is very valuable. Please write it even if I choose to go with another! I would love to read it. :mrgreen:

–Nick

How about this?

Looks like you’ve already gotten a few good cases above, but when’s your deadline? I could ask Talbott & Parry but I suspect they’re both too busy on their 2nd editions.

Alex

Just as an aside, do you know how things are with Tom Talbott? I had heard that his wife was very ill. Do you know if she has recovered? I don’t want to pry into Tom’s private life, but I have such huge respect for him, and I would like to pray for him and his family if needs be.

Shalom

Johnny

So would removing the two paragraphs in brackets that I mentioned. :wink: (The total would then be actually less than 700, since the wordcounter treats every scripture reference as 3 words.)

And I myself joked that I wasn’t concise, so don’t worry about suggesting I’m not! :laughing:

The reason I didn’t go with the three x three part structure you suggested, is that in my experience such a wide focus in a short wordcount will only present a straw man version of EU.

On the other hand, I’m worried that the particular approach I took would be too provocative and confrontational. I want to revise portions of it anyway to try to get across better that I’m not saying everyone who believes in hopeless punishment will automatically be put through God’s real non-hopeless punishment until they learn it isn’t hopeless. I don’t believe it’s anything so simple as that. But I was regularly convicted in my own prior understanding(s) of hopeless punishment when I began studying the matter more closely, and that’s what I wanted to get across with this approach.

I pinged Dr. Bob as he’s better at presenting concise cases than I am (and has a doctorate, which I don’t). I’ll ponder some way to try conforming to the submission guidelines without making the case nothing more than what most people have already shallowly heard in passing. I just don’t want a reader to flick their eyes down it and go, “Col 1 + Rom 5, and 1 Cor 15 again, and Phil 2 again; man haven’t these universalists got any new material? Haven’t they read that there’s an unforgivable sin, and fifty other things said by Jesus and the prophets and apostles against everyone being ‘saved’? But as usual they don’t even address such things. Hiding their poor little heads in the sand. Feh.”

Update: I’m sick at my stomach today, and about to leave the office again. But the nice thing about being sick at my stomach is that it helps me trim my wordcount down. :laughing:

I’ve revised and restructured most of my first draft. I’m still focusing on one topic with three examples (plus a little topical spread), but it will meet the requested 3x3 design specifications as well as the 700 wordcount limit.

Hey Jason (I typed Jesus instead, weird :laughing: ) I hope you feel better.

Okay cool. As long as it conforms to the standard, feel try to tie it all together via the one topic. Do not worry if things aren’t as specific as you like, I plan on including a “for more thoughts, go to . . . .”

And I suspect many people do not really know EU very well, so presenting any possible Scripture may actually be helpful. :wink:

–Nick