The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Apostolic sermons don't mention ECT, significant?

Evangelical Universalism Arguments for Evangelical Universalism
#1

Defender’s of the traditional view often point out that Jesus had more to say about hell than anyone else and that though they would like not to believe it, as faithful followers of Jesus they must. Usually they assume that hell implies eternal conscious torment and that therefore Jesus said more about eternal conscious torment than anyone else.

I wonder if this argument can turned around. If Jesus did indeed teach eternal conscious torment then why did the apostles say so little about it. In particular, why is there no mention of it in Acts. Paul never mentions it in his sermons, but when he summarizes his ministry to the Ephesian elders he makes it clear that he left out nothing important “(20:20) I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable … (20:26,27) Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all of you, for I did not shrink form declaring to you the whole counsel of God”.

Thanks
Jim

#2

I made that point as I resigned from my ECT believing Church - especially that the apostles never even used the word Gahenna except for James’ one reference to the tongue.

I heard some pretty weak counters like “The apostles didn’t NEED to tell that part because Jesus spoke of it so much it was a given” :unamused:

Problem is that ECT IS the cornerstone - the very foundation for mainstream fundamental Christianity. Take that away and there’s no ‘reason’ left for anything. That’s what hundreds of them have told me anyway :confused:

#3

The attitude that has always amazed me from ECT believers is the one that has them saying ‘if eternal hell isn’t true then what’s the point of being good?’ This is a stunning statement which implies that they are unable to see the value of goodness for its own sake. Atheists and humanists in general have no trouble in seeing that helping your fellow man is a noble ideal (in that world view it has an evolutionary benefit to the survival of the human race over and above the immediate benefit of an individual). But to say one is only good because of the threat of ECT isn’t to have God’s law written on one’s heart.

As is being demonstrated in these current threads

**Can UR trump the Myth of Redemptive Violence? **


and
On The Legitimacy of Ascribing Certain Evils to God

It seems to me that the problem of Evil is more difficult for a Christian world view than the problem of Good is for an atheistic one.

#4

JeffA, I’m amazed as well at this attitude as well. I think it may be because the ECT traditionalists seem to be ruled more by fear of Satan and evil spirits than they are by Christ. Many engage in a form of “evangelism” where they spend their time threatening nonbelievers with God’s wrath instead of demonstrating His love. Their god is fear, and they don’t understand that nonbelievers they are trying to “scare” into the fold have no reason to be afraid of their god. Many of them have lived their entire lives in fear of their god’s wrath, so they have never experienced God’s love. The god of Hell-Burner is a punisher, and the nonbeliever without fear is the ultimate insulter, so he is punished forever because he doesn’t fear their god. I’m not afraid of their god and disagree with their dogma, so I am in danger of falling into the fires of Hell-Burner forever as well. See you there!

#5

Jim, they do this out of ignorance and a blind obedience to the dogma they have been taught. They have been turned away from the truth because they follow the teaching of men instead of God. Most don’t understand the origins of the the words translated as “hell” in their Bibles. Most do not even have a rudimentary understanding of the context in which Jesus spoke about “hell”. Most never read their Bible, and they are only repeating what they have been told. To best counter their arguments you must prepare yourself with truth and knowlege. Prepare yourself as Paul advised Timothy to prepare himself.