The Evangelical Universalist Forum

"At the End of the Ages. The Abolition of Hell" by Bob Evely

Studies Books
#1

,"]Here are some (Amazon) links to books I’ve read.

At the End of the Ages (In my opinion, the very best and first choice of these books)
The Evangelical Universalist
The Inescapable Love of God
Raising HellI felt compelled to get it on my Kindle and read it :mrgreen: So far I’m about half way through and have found it hard to put down as it raises some things I hadn’t come across before. He encourages research, thinking & praying, which I’ll need to do to try to determine how valid the points are. He also answers many things along standard EU lines, often quite succinctly. I think I’ll buy a physical copy as, what I assume are tables, don’t come across very well on the iPhone. (Which reminds me I want to get a physical copy of the CLV too)

Anyway, has anyone else read this book? I’d love to hear what people thought of it?

amazon.com/At-End-Ages-Aboli … 1410712591

And the Kindle edition, which as of early April 2012 doesn’t show up on the book’s main Amazon page yet:

amazon.com/gp/product/B001T4 … k_ro_title

Bob kindly gave me permission to attach the chapter on how the Bible views “ages”, which is the clearest I’ve seen on this topic:f - IV. How Many Ages Are There.pdf (35.3 KB)

The Concept of Ages
#2

I have a copy, and have flipped through it considerably, like I have done with Hope Beyond Hell, though I haven’t read the whole thing yet (I’m something of a book-browser :laughing:). It’s good stuff though. :slight_smile:

#3

Thanks Matt. Does he have tables in it? I’m also reading Hope Beyond Hell in parallel :sunglasses:

#4

Welcome :slight_smile: I don’t think it does… what do you mean by tables? Kitchen tables, or…? :laughing:
Yeah, I forgot that At The End Of The Ages was towards the top of my list too, after Hope Beyond Hell, and those two Matrix commentary books… I’ll read it before I read The Evangelical Universalist. :slight_smile:

#5

I finished reading it! :sunglasses:

The Church history chapter showed greater support for Universalism in the first 500 years than I’d previously thought. I’d like to verify the references but very promising.

He does repeat a few things, but that helps drive a point home & make it stick.

I reckon this book is one of the very best introductions to Biblical Christian Universalism.

#6

hiya Alex I’ve read it a few times now and found it to be very similar to ‘‘hope beyond hell’’ just far more simplistic and succinct ,
it is a good general book to hand a range of people, Christian and non-Christian, if you get the impression they can follow an argument but might not like anything too heavy .I found it a tad disappointing that he relies heavily on quotes from Allin and it could have been better referenced but on the plus side the depth of his historical quotes for such a work is impressive :smiley:

#7

Thanks that’s helpful Stuart. Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to check out the validity of the quotes yet, so I’m nervous using it (not that I think he would purposely misquote, it’s just universalists sometimes get carried away, I know I’ve occasionally accidentally done this :blush: )

#8

Yeah, I’m really looking forward to Ilaria Ramelli’s work on this. I’m kind of skeptical of Allin, Hanson and Thayer’s “alternate UR history”. For me, Ramelli and her excellent contemporary scholarship will probably make or break my belief in UR.

#9

can I take it you are balancing between believing or not based on the historic argument and evidence ? how much weight do you give to the other arguments and evidence ? who is Ramelli ? will this be an historical work along exploring u.r. lines also ?

#10

For me, scriptures will always come first. Other than a few passages I am yet to work through and a general free-will criticism, I am moderately convinced already. But I have to spend a lot longer studying all of this. If Ramelli can argue that UR was believed by a significant number of the early church then (all scriptural arguments not withstanding) I will probably become a confident universalist.

Ramelli is a Catholic professor of Patristic and Ancient philosophy. She is currently producing a work (apparently with volumes!) on Universalism in the early church – a research project lasting for thirteen years.

#11

thanks for the reply w.a.a.b. are you expecting this work to be one of those hundred plus dollar works ? hopefully not as I too would like to get hold of other [perhaps more scholarly] scholars who have documented this topic but one driving force for me is I don’t want to believe in the type of GOD that ‘‘Christianity’’ puts forward and out of all the models available they all share one common link the effect and or extent of the atonement :exclamation: this is what puts u.r. in another position all together one that truly is magnificent ! every man woman and child all the fallen angels , satan and the whole of creation !.
how is that not considered , a success !

#12

For such a scholarly work, and one which includes volumes, I presume it will indeed be a very costly purchase. I hope to make the cost anyway. But Alex mentioned that there will be an abridged popular version which should come at a much smaller cost.

#13

I’m reading “at the end of the Ages” right now. My sister has finished “Raising Hell” and was highly impacted positively be Julies message, so wanted more books on the subject of EU. I ordered her “Hope Beyond Hell” but Amazon for some reason does not have it in. So I wanted to send her something else that was introductory EU. I hear Bob’s book was good so reading it now to send to sister. So far on Chapter 5 and thought he did an AMAZING job with “Eon” and “Eon’s”, maybe the best arguements I have seen yet.

I would be interested in the book WAAB refers to, Ramelli’s book, when it comes out.

#14

That was my impression too, which is one of the reasons why I’m trying to convince Robin to read it before he does his 2nd ed :slight_smile:

#15

Excellent.

The other chapter that sticks out in “at the end of the Ages” is the one on Church history. While Robin’s “All shall be Well” provides more depth for the particular Universalists covered (in each chapter) Bob’s book provides far more names and quick quotes of Universalists through the centuries. Both approaches serve their purpose, but for a newbie looking for some form of proof that Universalism has wide historical acceptance Bob’s book is very convincing in my opinion.

#16

Steve, just so you know . . . you can get Hope Beyond Hell at www.hopebeyondhell.net . He also has abbreviated booklets for the somewhat less, um, excited. :wink: I just ordered some and am looking forward to them eagerly – they tell me they’ve been shipped.

#17

Thanks cindy, I’ll check into it!

#18

I’ve chatted to Bob Evely on FaceBook & he kindly sent me chapter 4 & gave me permission to share it! :sunglasses:

I’ve attached it to the OP.

#19

Alex, where did you find the Kindle version?

Amazon only shows a paperback.

#20

Strangely, they don’t have a link to the Kindle version on their paperback page. Don’t know why.

Here’s the Kindle order page at Amazon.

To be honest, I’m not very fond of the book so far. (I started reading it today, and was disappointed enough that I switched over to Gregory Nyssus’ Catechism while waiting for my pdfs of Winchester’s Lectures on Prophecy to split and transfer into my Kindle.) Some of his data is oversimplified and even self-contradictory to points he is trying to make; and his historical accounts are incorrect and uncharitable at points.

Put shortly, in his eagerness to complain about “the Church” and Bible translations, and to laud the scriptures as the very Word of God of which every single word is perfect (etc.), he sometimes stumbles.

I guess I’m spoiled: I just today finished reading Beecher’s History of Retribution, and he’s much more cautious and sober and charitable to both ancients and moderns that he disagrees with (even while imputing many moral faults in how they behaved.) BobE clearly means well, but if I was coming at his book from a position of agnosticism or contra-universalistic belief, I would be put off by his regular ineptitude in trying to build his case (and probably by his attitude, too.)

Still, there’s the Kindle link for people to purchase his book, so no one can say I haven’t given him promotion. :wink: Having paid for it I felt like grousing a bit, though. :mrgreen: (Also the Kindle formatting could be somewhat better.)