The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Bible verses to show we confirm Adam's sin by ours?

Evangelical Universalism
#46

I have to disagree, based on the fact that
]God promised “the day you eat of it you will surely die” /:m]
]it was (the only?) tree with seedless fruit. ALL trees and plants with seed-bearing fruit were permitted (Gen 1:29)/:m]
]God’s response to their eating was banishment from Garden intimacy with Him/:m]

Your observations about their immaturity are valid and the implications of their immaturity are interesting to ponder…
I have a friend who has floated the idea that the “forbidden” sterile fruit is a euphemism for the woman being seduced into sexual relations with the beautiful Lucifer (who became a snake post seducing the woman-aka phallic symbol). She says the same thing as you, that they were immature. It was not time for sexual consummation of their marriage. Note that there is no record of the consummation of their marriage nor pregnancy until post-forbidden-fruit-eating.

Sure would explain why Adam was so eager to eat the fruit she handed him without so much as a peep of objection! :open_mouth:

#47

To attribute sex to Satan’s inventiveness - I think, is monstrous. Given that Satan would have pretty much fiddled around with the bodies of Adam and Eve, effectively remaking the whole body’s hormone system, neurological system, and even given them the complicated complimentary organs between their legs. I think God would have noticed that Satan was not just touching his children’s “no-no zones” but effectively giving them “no-no zones”. That and, God invented their sexes, therefore would have invented their parts - and not for an idle function, he most certainly would have invented their sexual purposes in their physical bodies as well.

But more importantly, I can only state that if “eating the fruit” was “having sex with the Devil” then Adam is a homosexual, having “tasted the proverbial fruit of the snake” :confused:

I would also put quite a vast blame on God for letting his daughter Eve be effectively raped (as she wouldn’t have known any better being innocent; nigh statutory rape, in my honest opinion) by The Adversary, the rebel of whom he surely knew was present. I’d also be quite displeased considering that by The Adversary in the very primordial realm of innocence, God allowed such a vicious, irreparable defilement; and also allowed Eve’s virginity to be effectively stolen from both Adam and Eve, the very thought of it is a curse on the name of God, in my honest opinion.

I can see Adam and Eve being subject to sin for learning reasons, but God forbid from the highest seat of his throne that it should ever have come about by any such idea as “Serpent Seed Theology”.

“I damn the doctrine with a violent damning.” My poetic way of saying; “Euuuck!”

#48

It was not Satan who spoke the consequences over the first couple, it was God. So if monthly menstruation (which my mother referred to as “the curse”), PMS, menopause, labor pains, and male rule all happened post-forbidden-fruit-eating right alongside “the day you eat of it you shall surely die” it does not seem a stretch to me that there was a fundamental hormonal change reflected in Gen 3:16.

My friend also sees SoS as a looking back into the garden. Solomon is the villain of the story. TBH, the way SoS is usually taught in evangelical circles makes me sick to my stomach. To think that the God who I know could hold up Solomon as a role model for marriage
is monstrous!

Being coveted for a harem is not “love”.
“threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number. My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.” Song 6:8 What kind of god who would have His Word validating a paradigm like that?

In the Song of Solomon there is a repeating refrain:
“Awake not love before its time”
as well as talk by the brothers of walling in (protecting) their “virgin sister who has no breasts”, and the suggestion of her violation when she went into the city “The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me.” SoS 5:7

I believe Solomon was given wisdom and insight. But I also believe he was an awful husband! And it makes sense to me that a wise man who was such a relationship failure as he was, would have humbly made himself the villain of his play. It really makes sense out of SoS.

ETA: The view that the original sin was sexual in nature has a long history: newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Adam_and_Eve

(Not saying it is my view, but I do think there is some pretty strong biblical support: the couple’s sudden awareness of their nakedness and covering up their genitals, no record of marital consummation pre-eating-forbidden-fruit, and God’s pronouncements over the woman- which are related to her sexuality- in Gen 3:16)

Are we (and God) intended to be monogamous?
#49

I’d rather reject the whole account in Genesis before accepting the interpretation presented before me, in all perfect honesty.

It thoroughly obliterates God as being even half way decent, Biblically speaking. It would be tantamount to him selling Eve as a prostitute to the Devil, given that he planted the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil to begin with.

That being said; I think the whole interpretation is thin at best, fallacious entirely. The Knowledge of Good and Evil is hardly brought about by having sex, and having sex hardly makes one “as gods” knowing good from evil. The doctrine, I am convinced, is gross; and exalts the Devil more than God. The doctrine also doesn’t account for anything else in the Genesis account - all it does is strainfully try to equate eating fruit with spreading your legs; which I would say is a perverse man-made fabrication of a doctrine.

There are many more interpretations that are superior in dealing with the actual events presented by the account. Serpent Seed Theology, in my opinion, is full of agenda and my spirit rails against the very idea of it.

I don’t mean to sound so harsh, but having come across this doctrine before I can only express my true opinion on it; which is nothing short of bitterest antipathy.

#50

You seem extremely emotional about this. Frankly its the first I ever heard of this as a “doctrine”. Not sure about Chris- if she heard a teacher or not. I’m just looking at the biblical evidence:

  1. they didn’t appear to notice they were naked until after eating the forbidden fruit
  2. they covered their genitals
  3. the “consequences” upon the woman in Gen 3:16, mention increasing conception and pain in childbirth, as well as increased desire for her husband, all of which seem pretty related to sex to me
  4. Lucifer was extremely beautiful and was turned into a snake- which is a common phallic symbol in many cultures
  5. the fruit of the tree from which they ate had no seeds/ was sterile Gen 1:29
  6. There is no record that Adam knew his wife nor that she conceived prior to the eating of the forbidden fruit
  7. SoS uses Garden and fruit eating metaphorically for sexual activities, (and I personally agree with Andy Bannister that = Chapter 7 is about the insatiable LUST and ability to seduce of the Solomon (satan?) character, not about healthy marital oneness)

Note that I am NOT saying Cain is Satan’s seed nor that some groups of people are decended from Satan (I found an article based on your doctrinal reference on Wiki). The fruit they ate was STERILE, could NOT reproduce (Gen 1:29)

Perhaps they were immature and it was not time for them to have sex yet? Clearly God ordained “Be fruitful and multipy” and “you shall become one flesh”, but there is simply no record of it until post forbidden fruit eating (I don’t call it “the Fall” because the Bible doesn’t).

#51

Lefein,

I’m out of this. Really busy with school. I don’t have any vested interest nor emotion in this, just interested in where the evidence points. But I gather I hit some sore spot with you and I’m sorry for whatever it is that is hurting.

Much Love,
Gem

#52

Lucifer is a man. Satan is not. Satan is a liar from the beginning, Lucifer “fell”.

Lucifer is Adam

#53

Do you find in the text that God "planted the TOKOGAE?

My experience with sex, within a nearly 30 year marriage, is that it can be good or evil. WITHIN MARRIAGE, It can be exploitative, abusive, and prostitutional or it can be a means of the most incredible deep intimacy and connection. I can feel when there is LUST. I used to be able to tell instantly if he had been using porn. (He stopped that and other habits to save the marriage)

To me, the idea that God gave the woman increased desire for her husband and increased conception is beautiful- kind of like beauty from ashes. I can’t even imagine what human relationships would be like if we mated only seasonally like most mammals, if female humans had no sexual desire for males except when we were fertile… Genesis 3:16 is not a CURSE. It is consequences. And the consequences are redemptive and have beautiful aspects straight from the hand of a God of immeasurable love…

#54

:question:

Any Scriptures for that?

#55

I’m starting from the point that most people do in that these are the main verses which support Lucifer=satan=the cherub in the garden, thus a fallen angel

Isa 14:12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

the word translated (wrongly)lucifer (which is latin btw, not greek, should give you a hint its use as a proper name is wrong) is heylel/light bearer, adam is the light bearer, as he was the bearer of the image of El

Here is the translation in Nasb
How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

Rev 22
I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star!

I don’t feel comfortable with the same title being given to Christ as Satan do you? (Venus is the star in view here in both passages which is the first brightest star seen in the morning), but Adam is a type of the one to come, so having the same title isn’t such a stretch.

Isa 14:16 Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: ‘Is this the** man **who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

as in Adam all die, through the one man came the transgression, a man made the earth tremble

He is also the king of babylon, babylon is the kingdom of this world, the fleshly desires vs. the kingdom of the spirit of the second man Christ the new Jerusalem (literal Jerusalem is called egypt and sodom)

Eze 28:12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD,
“You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

perfection=
tok-neeth’
Origin: from 08506
Reference: TWOT - 2511b
PrtSpch: noun feminime
In Hebrew: tynkt 2
In NET: pattern 1, perfection 1
In AV: sum 1, pattern 1
Count: 2
Definition: 1) measurement, pattern, proportion

heres the only other place this word is used in the bible
Eze 43:10 As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, so that they will be ashamed of their sins and measure the pattern.

what is the temple of God? Our body the living stones, and the whole temple the entire ecclesia (assembly), God does not dwell in temples made of human hands, adam is a type or pattern of Christ who was the tabernacle walking around
“and the word became flesh and tabernacled among us”

Eze
15“You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.

John 8:44 You people are from your father the devil, and you want to do what your father desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.

thats a start, I can post more later, gotta go now

#56

That’s OK. That was plenty for me to get the idea.

rhm, with all due respect, I’m afraid I have to distance myself from that method of hermeneutics. Seems to me, one could use biblical word associations that way to construct a thread between just about anything…

So, despite the fact that both you and I are rocks (you are redhotmagma and I am gem) and God is a rock, we are not God, nor are we the same. Nor are Adam and Lucifer IMO.

#57

word study is a foundation of biblical study. The purpose is to help us understand what a word means which we can’t fully understand with our very limited knowledge of biblical languages. There are translational errors, or lost in translation. Every translator is translating from a bias called their world view. So to check the accuracy of a translation, or to get a fuller understanding of what a word means, you check it in other context.

a topical study helps us to see a thread of thought throughout the entire bible, which is the full context of anything written in the bible. You will have a very difficult time trying to understand any doctrine fully without one. Try explaining UR to someone without a topical study, using scripture.

I have combined the two a topical and word study, those were examples, not the whole enchilada

You may not like my conclusions, fine, I don’t care. You can continue believing Eve had sex with a fallen angel.

Or even better, why don’t you tell me where I’m wrong, instead of making generalities, and distancing yourself from my hermaneutics, which as a side note hermaneutics = hermes/thoth the god of (carnal) wisdom + neutics (not sure what neutics is exactly but the hermes part is the point)

Blessings,
Jeremy

#58

I agree and love word study and have learned a tremendous amount from word study.

Here’s where we differ. I was trained that “context is king” and that the best (only good) way of preaching is exegetical preaching.

The reason I did not speak further is to avoid hurting your feelings which I have apparently done anyway.

The first woman ( I don’t refer to her as “Eve” because she was not named that until her husband dubbed her that post- forbidden -fruit-eating)

DID her partaking of the forbidden fruit upon the seduction of the serpent involve a sexual act???

** I don’t know,** but I think it is a possibility. And I think there are some details in the text which support the theory as I have stated above.

I’m not sure why some people find this so incredibly more offensive than the traditional view in which the perfect first woman is viewed as easily deceived (aka stupid and gullible) and responsible for the destruction of the race. I prefer the sexual theory. It’s more logical.

Here’s a kind of a parable by Liz Curtis Higgs which I think captures the seduction involved

#59

The sexual theory is, in my opinion, as disgusting as the doctrine of Eternal Damnation, and just as full of agenda as the Eternal Damnation doctrine.

I feel that it makes God look like a careless father figure who purposefully set the events in motion for his daughter to be defiled, and it makes Eve look like a prostitute. It also makes Adam out to be a homosexual - as he ate the serpent’s fruit too.

I feel that it doesn’t make any sense regarding the rest of the Genesis account, and it doesn’t make sense regarding the nature of sin, which basically pins every thing down to “Humans wanted to have sex” instead of “Humans wanted to become as gods; disobey, know good from evil, etc”. It makes marital sex look like Satan’s little invention, and it makes God’s gift of human sexuality, a Devil’s curse, it means that Satan had to have basically remade the human body as well. It practically makes Man into Satan’s creation, rather than God’s.

The Genesis account presents innocent Edenic human beings as being disobedient to God by eating a piece of fruit, not of mating with Satan.

It is a doctrine that I am convinced, could only have been invented by sexually repressed persons trying to hide a foul deed or foul intentions in their own hearts under the guise of theology. I say it is a doctrine invented to control, much like ETC.

The misuse of sex is grievous, and a Devil’s poison; but it is not the root of all evil. And God invented multiplication amongst the species (sex) - not Satan.

If the traditional view supposedly makes “Eve” look like a gullible idiot who doomed the race, the sexual theory makes her look like a gullible, idiotic harlot who doomed the race. I’d rather she had been perhaps a little ignorant than be an ignorant harlot.

#60

<edits made to the post above to seem less harsh, as that is not my intent even when being blunt>

#61

My attempt is to show the pattern. You will see the concepts of pattern, form, image associated with the tabernacle
I attempted to make this readable, its hard to keep in a straight line when all these lateral associations jump out, I didn’t list every verse that each word studied brought back
[size=150]1)[/size]American Standard Version EZE 43
1Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east. 2And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shined with his glory.
voice-revelation, from mount of olives, day star, sun arises
3And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city; and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
cherubim, in spirit, ate scroll, eze 1-3
4And the glory of Jehovah came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. 5And the Spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of Jehovah filled the house.
spirit took me up, holy of holies/garden banished to the east, gate blocked by cherubim
6And I heard one speaking unto me out of the house; and a man stood by me. 7And he said unto me, Son of man, this is the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever.
dwell in the midst
And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, and by the dead bodies of their kings in their high places; 8in their setting of their threshold by my threshold, and their door-post beside my door-post, and there was but the wall between me and them; and they have defiled my holy name by their abominations which they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger. 9Now let them put away their whoredom, and the dead bodies of their kings, far from me; and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

10Thou, son of man, show the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and [size=150]let them measure the pattern.[/size] 11And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, make known unto them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the egresses thereof, and the entrances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof; and write it in their sight; that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them. 12This is the law of the house: upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.
(form=tsurah h6699 is the feminine version of tsuwr h6697=rock as in God) (we are the bride, christ is our rock)
(also Tyre = rock and these all come from the same root 6696) (only use of H6699 in Bible)
(the word pattern is only used here and in the “lucifer” passage Eze 28)

[size=150]2)[/size]dwell- in lxx its kataskeno g2681, from kata (throw down, stake down in the sense of more permanent) and skeno tent G4637
[Jhn 1:14 KJV] - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt[4637] among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. word=spirit, flesh=tent
[Rev 7:15 KJV] - Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell[4637] among them.
[Rev 12:12 KJV] - Therefore rejoice , [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell[4637] in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
(do people actually live in the sea?)
[Rev 13:6 KJV] - And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell[4637] in heaven.
[Rev 21:3 KJV] - And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying , Behold , the tabernacle[4633] of God [is] with men, and he will dwell[4637] with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

[size=150]3)[/size]skeno 4637 is the verb of the noun 4636 tabernacle, these are the only two uses of 4636

[2Cr 5:1 KJV] - For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle[4636] were dissolved , we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2Cr 5:4 KJV] - For we that are in [this] tabernacle[4636] do groan , being burdened : not for that we would be unclothed , but clothed upon , that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

[size=150]4)[/size]this comes from 4633 skene tabernacle 4633 is akin to skia 4639 (for unknown reasons to strong)
[Hbr 8:5 KJV] - Who serve unto the example (hypodiegma g5262) and shadow (skia 4639) of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle[4633]: for, See , saith he , [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

[Act 7:44 KJV] - Our fathers had the tabernacle[4633] of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed , speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion (typos g5179) that he had seen .
[Hbr 8:2 KJV] - A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle[4633], which the Lord pitched , and not man.

[Hbr 9:3 KJV] - And after the second veil, the tabernacle[4633] which is called the Holiest of all;
[Hbr 9:8 KJV] - The Holy Ghost this signifying , that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest , while as the first tabernacle[4633] was yet standing:old testament/physical “literal”/old man/aaronic vs
[Hbr 9:11 KJV] - But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come , by a greater and more perfect tabernacle[4633], not made with hands, that is to say , not of this building; new testament/spiritual/new man/melkezedek
Rev 21 1 1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place[4633] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God. (who is the bride?)

[size=150]5)[/size] skia [4639]
(Luke 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,)
[Luk 1:79 KJV] - To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow[4639] of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
[Mat 4:16 KJV] - The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow[4639] of death light is sprung up . (shadow of darkness is the law of sin and death, sprung up=arises same as 2 Pet 1:19 as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.)

[Mar 4:32 KJV] - But when it is sown , it groweth up , and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow[4639] of it. (speaking of the kingdom of heaven, which is at hand proclaimed Jesus)
[Col 2:17 KJV] - Which are a shadow[4639] of things to come ; but the body [is] of Christ.(talking about the OC, the literal)
[Hbr 8:5 KJV] - Who serve unto the example and shadow[4639] of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See , saith he , [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[Hbr 10:1 KJV] - For the law having a shadow[4639] of good things to come , [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect .

(The law, the ritual the physical temple are the shadow and not the very image (remember this word skia is related to tabernacle, the tabernacle is the shadow, the pattern)

[size=150]6)[/size]image,
[Rom 1:23 NASB] - and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image[1504] in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
[Rom 8:29 NASB] - For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image[1504] of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
[1Cr 11:7 NASB] - For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image[1504] and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
[1Cr 15:49 NASB] - [size=200]Just as we have borne the image[1504] of the earthy, we will also bear the image[1504] of the heavenly.[/size]
[2Cr 3:18 NASB] - But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image[1504] from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. (transformed from the image of earthy/adam)
[2Cr 4:4 NASB] - in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image[1504] of God.
[Col 1:15 NASB] - He is the image[1504] of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
[Col 3:10 NASB] - and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image[1504] of the One who created him –
[Rev 13:14 NASB] - And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image[1504] to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.
[Rev 13:15 NASB] - And it was given to him to give breath to the image[1504] of the beast, so that the image[1504] of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image[1504] of the beast to be killed.
(where is the image of the beast set up?, image of earthy vs image of heavenly, adam vs jesus) (Ecc all men are wild beasts)
(the number of the mark of the beast is 666 the number of man, anthropos,mankind)

[size=150]7)[/size]hypodiegma 5262
[Jhn 13:15 KJV] - For I have given you an example[5262], that ye should do as I have done to you. (wash feet, pick up cross, die to self, enter into the holy of holies, enter into rest)
[Hbr 4:11 KJV] - Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example[5262] of unbelief. (entering into rest=enter the holy of holies, speaking of the promised land, the Israelites didn’t enter when they should have)
[Hbr 8:5 KJV] - Who serve unto the example[5262] and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See , saith he , [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[Hbr 9:23 KJV] - [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns[5262] of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

[size=150]8)[/size]type tupos G5179
[Rom 5:14 NASB] - Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type[5179] of Him who was to come.
[1Cr 10:6 NASB] - Now these things happened as examples[5179] for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. (the things here is everything in the OT)
[Phl 3:17 NASB] - Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern[5179] you have in us.
[1Th 1:7 NASB] - so that you became an example[5179] to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia.
(christ is our pattern, as we grow up into the fullness of Christ we become the pattern for others)

[size=150]9)[/size]“Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD:

“You were the signet of perfection,a
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
James 3:9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the** likeness** of God;
(the word likeness here is the same used for signet in LXX, it signifies a signet ring or stamp used to seal documents, we are the stamp of God, this is the only place this word appears in the NT)

13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering,

same word for precious, look up H3368, the word is used almost all times of precious stones/materials to build, decorate, or fill the temple. Also compared to wisdom, and Christ (the light)

Isa 28:16 therefore thus says the Lord GOD, See, I am laying in Zion a foundation stone, a tested stone, a **precious **cornerstone, a sure foundation: “One who trusts will not panic.”

sardius, topaz, and diamond,
beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire,b emerald, and carbuncle;
and crafted in gold were your settings
and your engravings.
(9 gems, 9 fruits of the spirit, 9 is the number of HS)(nearly all the uses of the gems listed are of that in the breastplate of the high priest, who is the great high priest? adam is a type of the one to come)

On the day that you were created
they were prepared.
14 You were an anointed guardian cherub.
(annointed, kings and rulers were annointed, messiah means annointed)

[size=150]10)[/size]1 pet 2 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

(precious G1784 is used only of people and in this passage at all in the bible)

7This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
“THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,”
21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps (what was his example? to die to his flesh, enter the holy of holies through a new way, through his flesh)

[size=150]11)[/size]I placed you;d you were on the holy mountain of God;
in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created,
till unrighteousness was found in you.

[size=150]1 cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?[/size]
Next up the cherubim…

#62

edited the above, added some colors for emphasis, a few notes

#63

rhm,

you might be right about the lucifer thing. I haven’t studied that like you have. Keep up the studies. God will give you insights. (The tabernacle thing where you are seeing the typology… the curtain in the temple between the people and the Holy of Holies** tore **from top to bottom when Jesus died on the cross- my friend Chris shared with me that the Lord showed her it’s like a marriage consummation with a virgin bride IYKWIM)

But, I have to bow out of this, RHM.

Lefein,

I presume you were hurt by a woman who was unfaithul and its a trigger for you?
You are a good man, Lefein. The Lord will bring a good woman into your life someday!

I have been faithful. My dad was a serial adulterer, and my husband has not been faithful. I know how it hurts. Believe me I know. In fact, I’m backing out of this forum because of the young men here who are uncritical of polygamy and polyamoury. It makes me sick to my stomach. Odd how you, on one hand find it so heinous to think the first woman’s seduction could have been sexual, while other young men here think there is nothing wrong and it’s great if you can handle it to get a really good day-planner and live the life of Solomon in the flesh. Just really pulls my brain in two directions so that it wants to burst… I can’t and don’t want to be comfortable with it so I’m out.

In my life, the men are the ones seduced by sexual sin, but they aren’t called “harlots” :question:

Satan, a person or a personification?
#64

Yes Gem that is exactly what its like. Please dont think you need to bow out i dont desire a debate but a conversation, discussing the great depth width height and breadth of scripture. There may be something to the serpent seed but i dont think it has to do with the actuall act of sex but that of the serpent seed birthing lies in eves mind since he is the father of lies. Oh and typology is of you and me and the daystar arising in our temple.
Blessings

#65

You could say that…I suppose…

Thank you. I hope so as well.

I am truly sorry for your pain :frowning:

In all honesty, I would have chastised Solomon for his ways as much as I would any man today. I don’t consider Solomon to be my rolemodel for a perfect marriage, but rather a Virgin Christ.