Can a Non-Believer Live a Moral Life?

Origen · March 9, 2018, 3:39am

davo:

Origen;:

Here’s the view of the Apostle Paul, not just an “opinion”, regarding unbelievers (non Christians):

1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

As always you demonstrate your inimitable penchant for verballing the biblical writers into saying what you’d wish they said. The early church was predominately Jewish (Acts 15:21) and your so-called “unbelievers” were in all likelihood wayward Jews, i.e., “sons of disobedience” and thus “by nature children of wrath” to which Paul himself likewise identifies by his “we all once lived” being indicative of his own sordid past (Acts 8:1, 3; Gal 1:13, 23; 1Tim 1:13). This view is further backed up in Paul’s then distinction and reference to… “like the rest of mankind”. IOW, unfaithful Jews were like anyone else… susceptible to outward superficiality JUST LIKE the wayward “believers” of the other texts you mentioned — same house different street.

I’d suggest reading Ephesians 2 & see if you still hold to that opinion.

Holy-Fool-P-Zombie · March 9, 2018, 3:39am

I could ask you the same thing. They could be acting at 90% purity - in God’s eyes - for all we know.

How can we see the light? Well, for Christians it’s the Holy Spirit - that lights up the darkness. For non-Christians, we can take a bit, from the Gospel of John. And Quaker theology. Where Christ is the light, that lights up every man - who comes into the world. Christians need to listen, to the Holy Spirit. And check the messages, against the gospel (whether RC, EO or Protestant). Non-Christians are guided, by Christ as the inner light. And so are Christians. They just need to listen attentively.

Notice the translation says “everyone”… And so do the other translations - at biblehub.com/john/1-9.htm.

See “Are Quakers Christian, not Christian—or both?”

Origen · March 9, 2018, 3:39am

Holy-Fool-P-Zombie:

Origen;:

Since you only observe others outwardly & superficially by their actions, not their innermost being, how is it one can think they are omniscient when it comes to what is inside of others?

Can you see a crowd of people and list the percentage of purity or rottenness in each heart? This one is 50%, that one 25%, that one 85%?

When have you ever seen another person & been able to judge that their motives are 100% pure? Are you God the Omniscient?

How much of even your own heart do you comprehend? Only what’s on the surface, the superficial?

How does a darkened heart, one that is in darkness, have the light to see what is in itself?

I could ask you the same thing. They could be acting at 90% purity - in God’s eyes - for all we know.

How can we see the light? Well, for Christians it’s the Holy Spirit - that lights up the darkness. For non-Christians, we can take a bit, from the Gospel of John. And Quaker theology. Where Christ is the light, that lights up every man - who comes into the world. Christians need to listen, to the Holy Spirit. And check the messages, against the gospel (whether RC, EO or Protestant). Non-Christians are guided, by Christ as the inner light. And so are Christians. They just need to listen attentively.

New International Version - John 1:9

The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.

Notice the translation says “everyone”… And so do the other translations - at biblehub.com/john/1-9.htm.

I’m in general agreement. Non Christians are sometimes guided by their conscience, often by their feelings & lusts of the flesh & mind. They are basically in darkness & may never be enlightened by Christ in this lifetime. Generally speaking they do not have the Spirit of Christ. In the OT, though, God’s Spirit even used a donkey to prophesy, so anything is possible.