The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Carlton Pearson

Im sure there have been some people who have wanted to repent after being in hell but all of them are still there. If you don’t repent in this life what makes you think you will want to repent in the next life being in hell? Besides Jesus said there is no such forgiveness available for you to receive… Matt 12:32 and Mark 3:29.

Tosh!

In your opinion and in your personal interpretation of the Bible - because I know you only value things people have gleaned for themselves from the Bible and not what you might have picked up from others eh?

For one thing - I might want to after meeting God as a consuming fire :wink:

this is spilling over a bit from the “why does hell have to be eternal” thread, but i see here you’ve already answered my question about if you subscribe to the idea that each sin is an infinite affront to God’s honour.
if teachers of false doctrines obtain worse condemnation, then clearly hell will be worse for them (unless they repent of course).
so …hell is worse for some then for others, due to some sins being worse than others?
thanks for answering that.
what i’d like to know then is how can infinite hell apart from God’s presence, with constant flames and burning be any better or any worse for any individual? you’d need Dante’s satirical hell, all the circles of which are notably absent from the Bible…

IF some perish then God’s will is not done. It says God is not willing that any should perish. Not God is not willing that any should perish, so he offers salvation through grace then the really smart ones self generate their faith (is that spirit faith or soul faith?) and those few get saved the rest perish.

How can any perishing align with Gods will being done, if His will is that NONE should perish.

NONE perish=Gods will, SOME perish=Gods will

These are mutually exclusive

Whether you want to or not is not the issue. Jesus’ opinion not mine. :wink:

I understand - you’re only following orders :smiling_imp:

If you were really only following Jesus and not what someone tells you what Jesus meant when He spoke of judgment and Gehenna fire, you might be of a different opinion.

Try to listen to Jesus with the heart and mind of a first century Jew, in the context of his culture and in the original language(not the KJV :stuck_out_tongue: ) :wink: .

This concerns a discussion I have to finish with Auggy on another thread, but:

How can any sin align with God’s will being done, if His will is that NONE should sin.
NONE sin=God’s will, ALL sin=God’s will
These are also mutually exclusive, are they not? God’s will clearly gets thwarted every day.

certainly, but we’d all agree that God’s will doesn’t get eternally thwarted in the end, surely?
it’s one thing for Him to suspend judgement now, and allow us to go about our way, it’s another thing for Him to allow anything to defeat Him forever.

Revival said…

Jesus said…

Jesus also said…

.

Context, Context. context…did I say Context?

Briefly, **nor the will of man **means it doesn’t come by pro-creation or genealogy.
John 6:45 we see the process of coming to Jesus " Every man therefore that has heard and learned of the Father cometh unto me". How? by the scriptures. :wink:

“You search the scriptures thinking in them you will find eternal life”

As Revival stated, context is integral. The verse you are quoting (John 1:13) has been completely distorted by separating it from its preceding verses.

9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
— John 1:9-13
In verse nine we read that there was a true Light (most likely Yeshua, though some take it as the Holy Spirit) which enlightened every man, and clearly not the elect only (supporting unlimited atonement). In verse eleven, we read that He came to His own (Israel) and that they rejected Him (supporting resistable grace). Then in verse twelve, we read that those who received Him, who believed in Him, were given the right to become children of God (supporting conditional election). The privilege of being born again is clearly given to those who believe — faith precedes and causes election here. Verse thirteen reminds us that we cannot regenerate ourselves. It is of grace that we are born, not by ancestry (as many of the Jews believed) nor by our flesh and nor by human strength (semi-/Pelagianism).

In my opinion, this particular passage does not defend your determinism.

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
— John 12:32
This is saying that everyone must receive prevenient grace to approach Yahweh. Everyone receives this grace (John 12:32). We simply believe it can be resisted, as evidenced by the vast weight of scriptural testimony.

finish the verse: and they are they which testify of me.

they testify, but they are not the life, He was speaking to the pharisees who had the tree of life standing right before them and they couldn’t see it. The scriptures do not bring eternal life.

John 6:45** we see the process of coming to Jesus **" Every man therefore that has heard and learned of the Father cometh unto me". How? by the scriptures. The scriptures pointed to Jesus as Messiah.