Yes, that’s logical for an all-seeing God if person A has freely done X. But if person A does not yet exist, and has not yet had an opportunity to freely decide or even contemplate X, it’s less intuitively logical that an undetermined action X already even exists to cause an all seeing God to know it.
So we appear to agree that the logic does seem to hang entirely on perceiving that the nature of time and the future, is that an existing ‘God’ can see or know future events that remain to yet freely happen.
" Is philosophy dead, as Stephen Hawking has proclaimed?"
It would seem to me, a casual observer of the time that has been taken up debating philosophical arguments in two recent topics, that reports of its death, to borrow a phrase from Mark Twain, “are greatly exaggerated”.
But after you read the statement below written by a well-known philosopher, you may wish to put a gun to its (i.e., philosophy’s) head and pull the trigger!
“The concept of a married bachelor is not a strictly self-contradictory concept.”
Zombies are what folks, have seen in prophesy…which are covered in Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). It’s up to us, to affirm or reject them…just as we do, with any theology or philosophy - given by folks here.
But the last post, covers REAL logical puzzles - if you watch the YouTube videos. They just use zombies as subject matter. They could have used werewolves, monsters, space aliens, vampires or ordinary folks - for subjects instead.
Since you insist. Here’s what I have shared on this forum.
And how do you interpret the scriptural passages? For example. I argue about Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)…being the most probable, end-times tribulation scenario. And I can present different Christian people - not related to (or knowing ) each other - having the same visions or prophecies. But I can also back it up, with scriptural passages about zombies:
Somewhere on the forum, I shared a true story - from Haiti. It was about a couple of western-trained clergies…who graduated from Western Protestant seminaries…and were assigned to Haiti…but after spending some time there…they starting talking about zombies as if they were real and commonplace there. I would assume these 2 theologians and church clergy, were of “sound mind” - as Paul would put it.
When a massive earthquake devastated Haiti some years ago, I was on the ground shortly thereafter as chaos reigned and decomposing bodies filled the streets.
Driving around with two seminary professors with doctorates from very conservative American schools that don’t even much believe in supernatural miracles continuing today, I was shocked when they casually began speaking about the zombie problem in Haiti. Apparently, it was a reality they had dealt with on multiple occasions in their pastoral ministry.
To exclude zombies would be “discrimination”, against all my zombie friends! Besides, I have established a theological foundation for them…I decided to examine my theory again…that Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)…is the most probable, end-times tribulation scenario…and guess what? I came up with 9 examples…of folks not related to each other - seeing this! And that is just the beginning… This is from page 1, of Google alone…and there are tons of pages, continuing on Google…as the most probable, end-times tribulation scenario… Which is no more - or less “unusual”…then saying things like all was fulfilled in 70 AD, we have no free will and are puppets on a string - via God, only parts of the Bible one agrees with are true, etc. ALL equally valid - or invalid - positions on this forum.
Randy, you work hard at inserting material. My chagrin is that some of your posts bring a smile, and when you engage the topic being discussed, you contribute helpful relevant input. But that I too am among those who see the repetitious zombie material as a distraction to ignore
It may be worth considering if that tendency is training us to skip right past your contributions, or that your theme may be doing more for you, than engaging the concerns of most others.
Randy, here’s a quote from one of the links you provided obviously agreeing with your notion given you say this affirms your so-called ‘biblical zombies’…
An obvious and heinous conclusion has to be this… given that Jesus was raised by God for a season, then he ascended, you must also see Jesus himself as a zombie. And given Jesus was the firstborn of the dead, i.e., the pre-eminent one, you must likewise see Jesus as the chief of zombies. Naturally, I reject out of hand such a wholly-foolish notion, BUT that’s the essence of this disturbed teaching of yours. You even provide texts relative to resurrection claiming these speak of zombies; and as for your video evidence, well…
I see zombies as the most probable, end-times tribulation scenario. Based on the folks seeing them, claiming to have - visions from God or the gift of prophesy. Which I can believe in the gift…since my Protestant mom, was born with it. And I have seen it in use.
Now Mark states something from an article, which he puts “zombie” in quotes. Which you conclude, Christ is also a zombie. A statement I would disagree with, as he is the Son of God (as defined by historical creeds). If zombies do appear, they are the Devil - working a counterfeit Resurrection…and science run Amok. Notice that I deal, in statistical probability here. What is the “most likely”, end-times tribulation scenario. Where supernatural (AKA Devil) and science run Amok (AKA government experimentation, etc.), combine to create this end-times nightmare.
Sorry Randy but you put forward so-called evidence to back up your zombie claims AND as such promote Driscoll as vouching for such claims… he states it all too clear where you guys are coming from, i.e., ““zombies” are dead people that God raises to life” — nah I don’t think so
Well, I would disagree with him on that. If that what he really says and is not doing literary, " tongue in cheek " writing. But lots of folks, on this forum…post articles to back up, their point of view…but when you press them, they don’t agree 100% - with everything the article claims. I do this often, with Got Question articles.
If zombies plague us, as the most probable - end-times tribulation scenario…it’s the Devil doing counterfeit resurrections and science run Amok. So I would disagree, with Mark on this. But I suspect, he is writing using literary methods. Meaning his meaning, is not always straight forward.
And I suspect if folks want to find zombies now and could speak relatively good French…Haiti might provide, what they are looking for! Black magic combined with science (AKA herbs like puffer fish) run Amok.
Maybe someday, I will write some books. Like Zombies For Dummies and Everything You Need To Know About Zombies, But Were Afraid To Ask. Then there might be book speaking tours, movie deals, etc. Hum! This might not be, such a bad idea - after all!
It would be a good idea. Unless the topic of the tread and zombies - coincided. But anyway, to recap. This thread (and an identical tread), was heavily laced with logical syllogism rules - with their discussions. And this would lose folks here, who didn’t take logic courses. So I offered some YouTube videos, with logical exercises. And the video creators used zombies to present their logical, animated problems - for folks to solve. They could have used knights from the Middle Ages, vampires, space aliens, werewolves, etc. But Davo objected, to what the logical problem trainers - used for the subject matter. But rest assured, I only use zombies - when they fit the thread topic. Just as folks here use preterism when they think - it fits the topic. Or other such “unusual” ideas.
I’m with Randy here. The absurdity of many of our individual posts to others on the forum is well, absurd. Those of you who have been here for years have seen many ideas come and go… From my stand point, the very fact that Randy has continued to continue his view is quite a revelation in at least consistency… And I admire him for that.
Hmm Chad maybe I’m a quick learner, BUT I remember checking these claims out pretty much the first time Randy posted them way back when…
…and so I know what they’re saying AND have answered to them before (as I did above, again), yet they appear like a never-ending regurgitated tag as though posted for the first time. NOT to mention MY contention made in this thread was what such variations on the one theme actually add zilch to the theological debate… just posting the material ad nauseam WITHOUT properly defending it but merely asserting such to be true, or when caught out by obvious conclusions or dubious claims and then trying to distance himself from scrutiny is just lazy and shallow IMO.
David, we live in a world of contradictions… As much as you don’t agree with the endless posts about zombies, Randy’s posts are relevant within the scope of where HE IS at this point in time. It may not have relevance as to your idea of scripture, but it is an Idea.
Peace:
Having said that, there will be much questioning as to the validity of the Zombie posts as to the understanding of scripture, and thus your argument. But hey it is what it is.
Yeah, where Chad? Do some homework on the site and let me know who, apart from me, has done more… “questioning as to the validity of the Zombie posts as to the understanding of scripture” which in return has generated little to no exegetical effort other than to post other people’s odd concoctions — two of those videos start with… “God showed me last night…” — seriously!? This might be just me, but I haven’t found God showed me last night so credible… so I’m a lot more limited to searching out and or deducing from Scripture; but like I said, that’s probably just me.
Thanks, Chad. Some here might think, they have found “the Holy Grail” of theology, philosophy, and science. Or in some cases, political science. Or one of those discipline’s Holy Grail “discoveries”. If so, I salute them. And someday God will tell me, if they are right, wrong - or somewhere in between.
As far as zombies, Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) and the end-times go…Well, they represent my theory…as the most probable, end-times tribulation scenario. And I’ll continue to defend it as such. But since it is presented as “the most probable” and a “theory”, it’s NOT a Holy Grail - as some might think, they have discovered. It’s NOT “the end all, cure all and final product”… as some with a holy grail - here and elsewhere - think they have discovered.
And I’ll continue to defend zombies, as any Holy Fool - would rightly do so.
Anyway, when I studied with folks from Native American spirituality, Charismatic Catholicism, Indian and Tibetan yoga, Zen, healing modalities and Japanese light modalities - guess what? They didn’t have me defend what I know, via logic, textual analysis, etc. They accepted me for what I have experienced and potentially - can experience. Then they helped me, to make sense of those experiences.
Although I know a “little bit”, about academic disciplines. Since I have a bachelors in Math, an MA in psychology and “dabbled” in philosophy, computer science, foreign language, creative writing and English literature courses. And became a black belt - in statistical methodology - for Motorola.
But I believe in the “old ways”. As one Eastern Orthodox priest mentioned…the ancient fathers, knew Greek - inside and out. And what is the understanding of scripture, passed down via tradition? Do we know more than they do? Or does the New Age wannabee medicine person, know more than tribal knowledge - passed down through the centuries? And for those “experts” here in prophesy. What do you REALLY know? Did you have a Protestant mother, born with that gift? And did you ask a Roman Catholic and an Eastern Orthodox priest, about that gift - in these days? Yes, it still exists - according to them.
And Hamlet - from Shakespeare - might be a good play to read…it might be a road map, for understanding me.
And others might get angry here - with Holy Fools. When they try to share, some “wisdom” here.
Well, first of all, you seem pissed. And for what it is worth, I agree that much of Randy’s post(s) (to a scholar) has little exegetical content. But his voice is valid within the context of the forum.
The point is that from my view, we should at least consider alternative views. Even if within a scholars scope, they are weird or off the wall (It could be said Randy is excelling at that particular vernacular) and to the point of the forum, at least in my thinking is that at the end of the day we can ignore who we so choose to. OCD is a problem with me big time. But I have to choose to ignore the things I know are not viable within my realm. Comprende?
And to everyone here, I am not a scholar. But also, Randy has been here for a long time, and that accounts for something. A community has been established.
