I have no dog in the fight, but there are words like Isaiah’s quote above but also verses that sound like God changes his mind but may be a literary device so both ideas can’t be literally true.
Obviously either way God is far above us, but as Paidion claims it is possible that the future can’t be known because it doesn’t exist yet so when God obtains more information he does change his mind.
So what? So we are a little like God in a particular way, after all we were made in God’s image.
1 Like
You should just be honest qaz and drop this royal “we” and own this statement for yourself.
You certainly have learnt the Universalist way, i.e., whatever doesn’t meet your theological criteria you in simplicity just jettison from the bible; I just don’t find that practice of convenience too intellectually honest. Your approach certainly calls into question the discernment of Jesus… like fancy Jesus fashioning himself as… “a greater than Jonah” — little wonder the religious elites of the day saw him as a false prophet too.
But again… IF you bother to read the text it is CLEAR why said disaster did not occur — God saw their repentance and so didn’t follow through with His word given — it’s called grace and mercy.
So qaz… given you have arbitrarily decided these texts are in contradiction, please explain how it is or on what basis you have decided that of these two texts you have chosen NOT to eject the Deuteronomy text, i.e., what criterion of yours has it met so as to garner your favour?
WHY does this always happen… deflect away from the subject by introducing an irrelevant red-herring? It’s like for example… disputing or besmirching someone’s affirmation of ‘the virgin birth’ by calling into question said belief on the basis that such belief is the mainstay of Catholicism, i.e., negatively portrayed to engender guilt-by-association; poor form IMO.
So explain your rationale as to why Jonah is false in your opinion but Deut is not.
So now it sounds like you are equivocating, i.e., now it’s conditional… well yeah it was, i.e., they displayed an attitude of repentance which in turn led to God’s, and thus were they saved from that which stood over and against them — thus they were touched by the grace and mercy of God — which is always greater than judgement.
Norm, that is true, but the zing comes when folks state a (in their mind) verifiable fact according to scripture. It all is opinion. I thinks we are all made different, we all think different and every ones reality in the end is different.
Now having said that to all those I just insulted, I was a person who thought I might have had some stuff figured out at least a couple different times in my short span on earth, only to have my humble pie handed to me on a plate.
I’ll float this out (and it may have been discussed on this forum and I just don’t know of it) that I believe in the possibility that dealing with God is a one on one deal. No organized religions or even thoughts, no structured BS, just our creator and us. And when we get to a point where we understand that, we are at one with God, I think it’s called zen in eastern religions.
Which in turn puts the Bible in the context of a historical document as opposed to a road map for ones life. And that is not to say the Bible as we have it is not advantageous to understand. It, in my opinion, just puts a different necessity on the outcome, especially once one understand the possible alternative view(s) of eschatology.
1 Like
How you “feel” is absolutely NOT what I’m saying. You’re saying in light of your reading of the Deut passage that you cannot in any way shape or form trust Jonah, or as you directly said… “we can’t trust Jonah’s words ascribed to God because Jonah prophesied something that didn’t happen.” This as stated is your preferred position… I am not in agreement but that’s fine.
I’m not in the hunt but as an aside, look at Jeremiah 19, where he talks about the valley of Ben Hinnom…
, qaz this is the Christians ‘HELL’ pure and simple. Off topic I realize but thought you needed to be reminded.
You were right around the corner so I thought I’d just point it out…
qaz… please explain your rationale for ignoring God’s actions here…
Jon 3:10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.
The whole reason the prophetic word did not come to fruition was NOT because it was as you claim a false prophesy and thus your attempted false linking with Deut 18:22 etc; BUT that God was moved in gracious pity (Jn 4:11) by of the Ninevites’ response to His prophetic word as given, i.e., these gentiles believed Jonah was speaking God’s word to them. EVEN Jesus recognised this and held it up to obstinate Israel as yet another warning to them — was Jesus wrong too?
So God is a fibber?
It actually doesn’t address the subject at all.
So… like a lot of my other specific questions you’re going to continue ignoring what has actually been asked in the favour of parroting your narrow view of another text… a text you clearly deem somehow to be MORE authoritative and yet without explaining how for example the likes of Jon 3:10 is not true, apparently.
Talk about pulling teeth qaz. So, I don’t need for you to agree with me I just want a plain answer. Are you inclined to believe Jonah gave God’s prophetic word to Nineveh even though said prophetic word did NOT eventuate, as per God’s actions as per the text — YES or NO?
Ok ta
Well the points I was making weren’t reliant in any way on Open Theism and then all the rabbit trails of contrary views take to that etc… that was where I was coming from.
Well yep, and that just there is IMO just common sense and how it is, or was.
Whether it’s prophecy (Jon 3:4, 10) or not (Gen 6:6-7) I think your partial quote I agreed with is quite simply where it is at. As for foreknowledge… that was specific to redemption and the working out of it thereof, so something I view as a pantelist as fulfilled and complete.
That summation, which in the past I’ve unsuccessfully tried to update, is less than accurate but you get that with the likes of wiki or theopedia etc.
I know “ta ta” means good bye, not sure if a single “ta” means that too?
ta is an old aussie term meaning thanks/cheers/bye.
MY idea of a fool? What do you know of MY idea of a fool?
Since the title of this thread is "Contradictions Old Testament Versus Old Testament, all I did was quote two consecutive proverbs as an example of a seeming contradiction. But do you understand my purpose in that way? Oh no. For you I am setting forth MY idea of a fool. What on earth leads you to deny the obvious and construe this Scriptural example to mean that I am expressing MY idea of a fool?