Dealing with the guilt UR brings…

[firstborn888]

To me the phrase “secret knowledge” has a negative connotation. When someone claims to have “secret knowledge”, to me it stinks of pride. And when people use that phrase to speak of others, they usually do so sarcastically or mean it in a derogatory manner. Though what you note is true, that others could mean something else by that phrase.

Blessings,
Sherman

But - it IS secret knowledge. I don’t know how pride can be linked with it though since it is unattainable by any human effort. My response has always been “Why me?”.

I guess in human nature it is possible to be prideful for no reason, like being proud of how humble one is?

I do identify with the verse: "At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure” - but it’s still a stretch to get prideful because you were unwise and unlearned and were like a little kid handed something from someone else. For me it’s been more humbling than anything.

My wife says (sarcastically) “Why do you think thousands of trained/called/educated/anointed teachers and preachers are ignorant of God’s plan but YOU (drop-out, ex-druggie, musician etc) have the inside scoop?”.

Not really a lot to get prideful about in that.

Except that I am a little overly happy to be unlearned and ignoble and have instead this… WONDERFUL (though somewhat hidden) knowledge of the big picture.

[Aaron37]

To me the phrase “secret knowledge” has a negative connotation. When someone claims to have “secret knowledge”, to me it stinks of pride. And when people use that phrase to speak of others, they usually do so sarcastically or mean it in a derogatory manner. Though what you note is true, that others could mean something else by that phrase.

Blessings,
Sherman

But - it IS secret knowledge. I don’t know how pride can be linked with it though since it is unattainable by any human effort. My response has always been “Why me?”.

I guess in human nature it is possible to be prideful for no reason, like being proud of how humble one is?

I do identify with the verse: "At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure” - but it’s still a stretch to get prideful because you were unwise and unlearned and were like a little kid handed something from someone else. For me it’s been more humbling than anything.

My wife says (sarcastically) “Why do you think thousands of trained/called/educated/anointed teachers and preachers are ignorant of God’s plan but YOU (drop-out, ex-druggie, musician etc) have the inside scoop?”.

Not really a lot to get prideful about in that.

Except that I am a little overly happy to be unlearned and ignoble and have instead this… WONDERFUL (though somewhat hidden) knowledge of the big picture.

UR claims to have an inside track on God’s love and his plan of salvation that somehow the majority of the body of Christ does not have. Red flag! God’s plan of the redemption of man is why we have the word of God in the first place. The bible explains the redemption of man in simplicity throughout its pages`. UR is simply a doctrine that has been established by taking God’s word out of context and making it say what you want it to say…just like any other false doctrine in the body of Christ

[RanRan]

The bible explains the redemption of man in simplicity throughout its pages…

‘Christ took away the sins of the world, therefore, He took away my sins.’ Martin Luther.

“And how is He Saviour and Lord, if not the Saviour and Lord of all? But He is the Saviour of those who have believed, because of their wishing to know; and the Lord of those who have not believed, till, being enabled to confess him, they obtain the peculiar and appropriate boon which comes by Him." Clement of Alexandria

Aaron, if you understood His redemption of mankind, you would see your own persistence in insisting that you have redeemed yourself.

[nimblewill]

UR claims to have an inside track on God’s love and his plan of salvation that somehow the majority of the body of Christ does not have. Red flag! God’s plan of the redemption of man is why we have the word of God in the first place. The bible explains the redemption of man in simplicity throughout its pages`. UR is simply a doctrine that has been established by taking God’s word out of context and making it say what you want it to say…just like any other false doctrine in the body of Christ

Aaron do you believe that anyone has ever been saved that has never heard scripture? ie. babies, mentally handicapped, etc

[Aaron37]

UR claims to have an inside track on God’s love and his plan of salvation that somehow the majority of the body of Christ does not have. Red flag! God’s plan of the redemption of man is why we have the word of God in the first place. The bible explains the redemption of man in simplicity throughout its pages`. UR is simply a doctrine that has been established by taking God’s word out of context and making it say what you want it to say…just like any other false doctrine in the body of Christ

Aaron do you believe that anyone has ever been saved that has never heard scripture? ie. babies, mentally handicapped, etc

How does this have to do with the post above?

[stellar_renegade]

UR claims to have an inside track on God’s love and his plan of salvation that somehow the majority of the body of Christ does not have. Red flag!

Which is how God has initiated all prior revelations throughout the history of God’s people. Hello!

God’s plan of the redemption of man is why we have the word of God in the first place. The bible explains the redemption of man in simplicity throughout its pages`.

Yep!

UR is simply a doctrine that has been established by taking God’s word out of context and making it say what you want it to say…just like any other false doctrine in the body of Christ

ECT is simply a doctrine that has been established by taking God’s word out of context and making it say what you want it to say…just like any other false doctrine in the body of Christ

[Sherman]

To me the phrase “secret knowledge” has a negative connotation. When someone claims to have “secret knowledge”, to me it stinks of pride. And when people use that phrase to speak of others, they usually do so sarcastically or mean it in a derogatory manner. Though what you note is true, that others could mean something else by that phrase.

Blessings,
Sherman

But - it IS secret knowledge. I don’t know how pride can be linked with it though since it is unattainable by any human effort. My response has always been “Why me?”.

I guess in human nature it is possible to be prideful for no reason, like being proud of how humble one is?

I do identify with the verse: "At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure” - but it’s still a stretch to get prideful because you were unwise and unlearned and were like a little kid handed something from someone else. For me it’s been more humbling than anything.

My wife says (sarcastically) “Why do you think thousands of trained/called/educated/anointed teachers and preachers are ignorant of God’s plan but YOU (drop-out, ex-druggie, musician etc) have the inside scoop?”.

Not really a lot to get prideful about in that.

Except that I am a little overly happy to be unlearned and ignoble and have instead this… WONDERFUL (though somewhat hidden) knowledge of the big picture.

As I noted, I was speaking of the common use of the phrase “secret knowledge”. Yes, it is true that we who have faith in Christ do so because the Atonement has been revealed to us. It is also true that when we are born of and even more so when we are filled with the Spirit, God opens our hearts and minds to recieve things from Him that others will ignore or dismiss.

But as I said, “to me” the phrase “secret knowledge” is rarely used in a positive fashion today; rather it is usually used sarcastically by those who do not “see” what others do.

[Sherman]

UR claims to have an inside track on God’s love and his plan of salvation that somehow the majority of the body of Christ does not have. Red flag! God’s plan of the redemption of man is why we have the word of God in the first place. The bible explains the redemption of man in simplicity throughout its pages`. UR is simply a doctrine that has been established by taking God’s word out of context and making it say what you want it to say…just like any other false doctrine in the body of Christ

Aaron, you really should have preferenced your statement with “It’s my opinion that…” or “I believe that…” Or do you assume to speak for God? For example:

I believe that the traditional doctrine of Jesus failing to save most of humanity, of Jesus loosing the battle with Satan for most of the people in world, the traditional doctrine of Jesus failing and loosing is a house built on sand. It, the traditional doctrine, cannot withstand the wind of common sense, much less the storm of a thorough exegesis of Scripture. The traditional doctrine of Hell is an affront to the Character of God who is rich, abundant in love, mercy, and justice. It is built upon misinterpretation of Scripture and affirms the Pagan Greco-Roman belief in Tartaroo and ignores the precious promises of scripture that affirm the salvation of all humanity, putting more faith in Satan to decieve and damn than in Christ to save and heal! And those who affirm Damnation, affirm damnation for others, though for themselves they trust in Christ for salvation! How selfish is this! “Salvation for me because of the Atonement, but damnation for you in-spite of the Atonement!” Why not trust in Christ for the salvation of others, as well as for ourselves! The traditional doctrine paints Jesus as a failure, failing to save most of humanity. And it paints God as a Hitler, a vindictive dictator threatening people with endless torture if they do not “trust and obey” him. Many people just cannot put their trust in such a vindictive dictator, rightly so.

[firstborn888]

As I noted, I was speaking of the common use of the phrase “secret knowledge”. Yes, it is true that we who have faith in Christ do so because the Atonement has been revealed to us. It is also true that when we are born of and even more so when we are filled with the Spirit, God opens our hearts and minds to recieve things from Him that others will ignore or dismiss.

But as I said, “to me” the phrase “secret knowledge” is rarely used in a positive fashion today; rather it is usually used sarcastically by those who do not “see” what others do.

Agreed. And I guess my point is that the fruit exhibited in the aftermath of revelation (humility/love etc) is a good measure of what’s real and what’s made up?

It is hard in a way to hear that accusation of specialness/secret info. I’ve learned to embrace the stigma and just say “sorry - don’t blame me, I didn’t do it”

[Melchizedek]

As to the argument of “secret knowledge”, such is not an argument at all, but merely a false derisive accusation for what we URs believe is not “secret”, nor do we claim to have any special revelation or relationship with God. We’ve come to believe in UR for a variety of reasons. Some of us believe in UR simply because we cannot reconcile the concept of Hell with our faith in God’s love. Others have come to believe in UR because of their understanding of scripture, the lack of scriptural evidence concerning Hell and the abundance of scripture speaking of the reconciliation of all humanity. Neither of these is secret in any way.

btw, appeals to popularity and appeals to tradition are fallacies of logic often employed to discredit UR. However, neither something being popular or traditional affirms that it is true. In fact, Jesus noted that the way of truth is narrow and few be there that actually find it.

I’ve seen a fair few straw men thrown into the mix as well!