The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Demons - real or not?


#1

An article on whether demons are superstition or real. What do you think? Are they real?


#2

Well, they will definitely animate the zombies…of the tribulation and Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5).


#3

Not. I think “cast out demons” was an idiom to describe restoring a person to sanity. A person who “had a demon” was simply mentally ill.


#4

What do you think about Jesus conversing with demons?

Since demons are described as fallen angels, does lack of belief in demons imply lack of belief in angels?


#5

I don’t take such stories literally. For possible explanations of what was really going on check out George Lamsa’s theories. http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/166.htm

I don’t believe in angels. I actually am awaiting the shipment of a book that provides on a non-literal understanding of angels in the Bible.


#6

All this discussion…reminds me of an Elvis Presley song!

Of course, if one doesn’t believe in demons…then they must come up, with a plausible theory…to explain man’s inhumanity to man!


#7

What is the book’s title?


#8

@mcarans


#9

Angels and demons are referenced numerous times by numerous authors throughout the entire bible so i think they are real.


#10

#11

I’m not sure how much you know about British newspapers, but the Mail is regarded as a tabloid and isn’t a source I would trust.


#12

Dr. Richard Gallagher, a distinguished psychiatrist who recognizes the demonic, is in many news sources.

Here are further mentions of him in CNN, The New Zealand Herald, The Christian Post, and World Net Daily:


#13

You overlook 2 key Gospel facts:
(1) The Gospels distinguish mental illness from demonic possession: “They brought to Him all the sick–demoniacs, lunatics,” etc. (Mathew 4:24).
(2) Jesus teaches that one of the main reasons His ministry ushers in the kingdom of God is His exorcisms of demons: “But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come to you (Matthew 12:28).”

On “Coast to Coast” a couple of days ago, Jeff Grupp was interviewed by George Noory. Grupp was a well published academic atheist, who had recently published a new argument against God’s existence in the philosophy journal “Sophia.” But he proudly issued a challenge to God to make Himself real in his experience and God took up the challenge in a dark and scary way.

He suddenly had a premonition that a family car would be totaled, but his family would be unharned. Then he said that cars begain to bizarrely regularly swerved towards his car, barely missing him–like in a bad horror movie! Then his young son began to show signs of demonic possession and stopped speaking for days. Soon his wife called him to report their car totaled in an accident, though no one was injured, just as his premonition dictated.

Finally, horrified at their little boy’s possession plight, they quietly stood in his bedroom while he was asleep and quietly exorcised him in Jesus’ name. By morning this little boy was restored to normal mental health and began speaking normally as he had before. God spoke to Jeff through this miracle and fulfilled premonition and he was transformed from an atheist to a devout Christian and became a Christian pastor and writer.


#14

@berserk please post the link for your news story. I looked the man up. He sounds like a conspiracy theory nut job.


#15

Well, this might - or might NOT - be the same person on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/Jeffrey-Grupp/e/B002WCPMSY%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share. But he says he was, a former philosophy professor:

from Michigan (I live near Ann Arbor), a former university lecturer in philosophy, teaching philosophy and religion and more specifically teaching Eastern philosophy, ethics, metaphysics, and Buddhism. Website: simulationtheory.net.

And here is what it says at https://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/grupp-jeffrey/50429

Jeffrey Grupp is a radical academic and empiricist. He is a former college teacher at Grand Valley, Western Michigan, Purdue (branch campuses) and Indiana U (branch campuses) where he taught philosophy, and more specifically: Eastern philosophy, ethics, metaphysics, and Buddhism.


#16

Sounds like the weekly unverifiable miracle from berserk. Berserk, where do you get all this stuff? If someone’s only news source were your posts, he’d get the impression miracles are happening all the time.


#17

It is the mark of a religious Ghetto mentality to ridicule what you don’t understand and are too lazy to investigate. Christianity is based on personal testimonies without extra scientific verification. As I said, Prof. Grubb had just published an academic article with a new argument for atheism, when his exorcism miracle and other encounters with God soundly converted him. Readers should also note how qaz has ducked to my refutation of his anti-demon screed from Matthew’s Gospel.

M;y cousin E is a Canadian psychiatrist who has authored medical books on pain management. e shared his battle with demonic possession at age 3. His minister Dad was perfroming an exorcism in a house and, just as the exorcism succeeded, E was possessed by the expelled demon in the waiting car. E had been left in the car with his mother and knew nothing of the exorcism taking place inside the home. His eyes rolled up until only the whites were visible as the takeover was completed and E screamed incessantly. His parents cried out to Jesus to spare their son during the drive home and E was finally delivered. All E now recalls of the experience was a waking vision of being cradled in Jesus’ protective arms as his own exorcism was consummated.

My own brother is a physician who performed a successful exorcism in his younger years. He was given the name and location of the possessed young man. When the young man showed up at that location, my brother performed the exorcism and the young man fell prostrate in a trance and then came out of it completely delivered. The young man thanked my brother for the deliverance and went on to become a prominent screenwriter for TV networks.

Now you can retreat to your mindless Ghetto and ignore such reports, of which I am providing only a sample, or you can shed your bias and engage in honest and open critical inquiry into the reality of possession today. If you still reject exorcism, the honest thing to edo is to reject Jesus, for whom exorcism was the key to demonstrating the presence of God’s kingdom.


#18

Lets see it.


#19

I’ve seen many ‘exorcisms,’ and been involved with many in ministry and at Fuller who believed otherwise, but after a lifetime of ministry and Biblical study, my own honest impression is that the fearful phenomena that first century writers attributed to spirit beings are more persuasively better explained in physical and psychological terms in our more scientific day.

I doubt that finding an educated person who believes particular views of the supernatural is relevant. Schooled folk can be found who believe virtually every belief known to humankind.

P.S. Which texts most clearly assert that “demons” were “angels”?


#20

What translation are you quoting? And are you presuming that “lunatics” refers to the mentally ill? Virtually all modern translations render “σεληνιαζομενους” as “epileptics.” I suppose one could consider epilepsy as “mental illness” but the victims usually are right in their minds until they have a seizure; then they become unconscious.

However, having said that, I agree with you that “demoniacs” referred those possessed by demons. And I disbelieve that this was simply a misunderstanding at the time, but that demons actually exist. I don’t have any consciousness of every having encountered demons, or angels either for that matter. Still I believe that angels exist also. However, I never think about either angels or demons. So they leave me alone.