The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Do universalists believe in the great commission?

Yes, I do believe in the great commission the way Calvinists believe in it. I believe the Bible teaches predestination. I agree when they say we cannot know who’s an elect and who’s not, so the faith should be shared with all. However, I disagree with them on the idea that God elected a few to exclude everyone else. I believe He did that to include everyone else.

Yes, universalists can and do believe in the Great Commission. The gospel they preach would be the funamental gospel outlined in the NT. That Christ is God-Incarnate, that he was born of a virgin, lived a holy life, healed the sick, raised the dead, preach the Kingdom of God, was crucified and raised from the dead according to the Scriptures, ascended to heaven, and that forgiveness of sins is preached in his name to all nations, and that he shall come again to reward the righteous and judge the wicked. We are created by God and for God’s pleasure. The purpose for which we exist can be found and enjoyed only through Jesus Christ who mediates God’s life and his purposes to us as we respond by trusting Christ, yielding ourselves to him, and adopting his way of life.

Is there another gospel you have in mind, Oxy? And are those who believe and live this your brothers and sisters in Christ?

Tom

Or maybe we should be supporting our own missionaries through our own missions board/association and avoid the problem all together. I really don’t see us being accepted within the fold anytime soon, specially in the US or Canada :frowning:

I would gladly help create such a board to help support missionaries and itinerant speakers spread the Good News.

Hairy,

Yeah I was thinking about pointing out, too, that universalists believe in the Great Commission at least as much as Calvinists do and on much the same principles! But I couldn’t recall if Oxy was a Calvinist (he has occasionally said things that seem to hint otherwise).

Scotmuzz,

Yes, an excellent point! The Calvinistic Southern Baptist missionaries I know would not want my help because they know I would believe myself obligated to preach the scope of Christ’s salvation from sin as well as the persistence. Whereas one of my mother’s best friends is now, with her husband, very high up in the ranks of Southern Baptist missionary administrators to Eastern Europe (especially Romania); and as much as they appreciate me and my work (Mrs. G even loved my novel :smiley:), they wouldn’t want me actually on the ground helping them directly with missions because they know I would believe myself obligated to preach the persistence of Christ’s salvation from sin as well as the scope! (They’re Arminians.)

This is not overly surprising, as missionary teams even in the SBC (where Calvs and Arms are both respected) tend to be either Calvinistic or Arminianistic in focus, along the line of the chief leaders of the group (and/or their immediate supervisors or sponsors). A Calv congregation, like the mission church in the nearest large city supported by my family (despite them being strongly anti-Calv!), will tend to create and send Calv missionaries. An Arm congregation, such as the church I currently attend in that same large city, will tend to create and send Arm missionaries. (Then there’s the church I attended with my brother and his family several years ago, whose pastoral leadership team has a mixture: despite the head pastor being Arm, they’re the ones who created the Calvish mission church! :laughing: Which rather nicely gives those pastors and members something constructive to be doing. :smiley: )

All I can do is my own small contributions, while hoping that if Arms and Calvs both work together (as in the SBC among several other communions), each providing 7/8 of the gospel, some people will put together the piece each side misses/denies and come to accept 8/8 of the gospel. :slight_smile: (Hey, that’s how I got there! :laughing:)

Still, 7/8 of the gospel is better than nothing. Especially since, ultimately, Christ Himself is His own chief evangelist! :smiley:

I think Oxy is having difficulty understanding how we can share the gospel without that hell threat. I think he’s having a hard time figuring out what our gospel is if it’s not about offering people a way of escaping eternal hell. Is that right Oxy?

I was really struck in Oxy’s video by how much the interviewer relied on the threat of eternal hell in his presentation. Of course that is the standard format of “sharing the gospel” that probably most of us were taught and practiced at some point in our lives, but I guess the more I get away from that line of thinking, the harder it jars on me when I hear it again.

Gotta go now, but I’ll have more to say later,
Sonia

It is this, partially, which I referred to when I stated “persecution from our brothers”. We aren’t being burned at stakes like the Protestants in Bloody Mary’s Britain. …perhaps not yet… But verbally, and practically we have our limbs ripped off, or our tongues torn out. In America, you don’t usually have to literally kill or torture your foe - you need only kill his reputation, his ministry, and torture his friends and family with ridicule that is undeniably hurtful.

One might say; “Well that’s being a pansy and having a frail faith if you could be hurt in all of that, sticks and stones! :slight_smile:

I retort; how little you know of words and the Bible. The power of life and death is in the tongue. How little you know of reality where a destroyed reputation is very damaging. “Don’t call your brother an empty headed fool (don’t call people bad names to ruin them(applicable interpretation?) or be in danger of the fire of Gehenna”.

But getting off my soap box, I just wanted to point out that EU does suffer difficulty in its ability to minister and evangelise. Too many worshipers of Diana willing to destroy the messengers to keep their silver temples up and running.

Many of us really do have to hold back, and hide some of our faith in order to present it to a hard hearted, or stiff necked people (at worst) or those whose necks are too sore under the yoke of a harsh view of God, and tradition (at the most benevolent) to go in with full force. They would not hear us, and we would have been bad stewards with our gift of the Good News.

I wonder how this would work. I have a feeling there are very intelligent and capable persons on this site who could. Unfortunately, not all of us can give so readily or as much. Still, you make an excellent point.

Sonia: I think Oxy is having difficulty understanding how we can share the gospel without that hell threat. I think he’s having a hard time figuring out what our gospel is if it’s not about offering people a way of escaping eternal hell.

Tom: I think so. And this brings us to a fundamental question about motivation for loving and worshipping God at all. In my view the motivation for worshipping and loving God ought to be the same as the motivation for witness. We witness to people in order to bring them into the same experience of God’s beauty we have known and rendering to God the worship he is due. Thus the whole motivation for witness migrates away from ‘pain-aversion’ (thought that is always an angle from which we can conceive of salvation, though it’s a negative and derived one) toward ‘pleasure-apprehension’ and its ground in the beauty and glory of God.

Oxy, to answer your question as succinctly as I can, GOD is the motivation for sharing the gospel since God will receive the praise and honor he deserves from those who believe in the gospel. Is there a negative side of this to consider? Sure. There’s the despair and sorrow of life without God, and ultiamtely hell (which does exist and IS avoided, surey something to be thankful for). But escaping that despair is not the positive motivation for which we witness, not if God is unsurpassably beautiful and glorious. God doesn’t need to take a back seat to hell when it comes to the question of what best motivates the human heart. This doesn’t mean universalists NEVER need speak of eschatological judgment, or hell. Hell is real and is to be avoided. That counts for something, yes, but it’s not the grounding motivation for mission. God is. Hell is just what we’re left with when we’re motivated by something other than God.

Tom

Sure:

Here is an article I wrote a few years ago.

How beautiful the feet that carry good news!

Greetings and Salutations in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and God, the Father.

I would like to address a subject concerning those who have not known or heard the truth and could not accept or reject the knowledge of Jesus Christ for their salvation. This could be anyone from those living on a secluded island in the mid-pacific to infants who are ignorant of even the things of life. Even in our ‘Christian’ western world, there still remains many ignorant to the saving knowledge of Christ. The Lord impressed in my heart to see His creation the way He designed it. The difference between His goal and His plan. When I see someone acting out of ignorance, I see my heart grow with compassion toward them knowing that though they seem to be doing what is wrong, they are ignorant to the fact it is not right. Does this ignorance condemn them? Yes, for what they are doing is wrong, but do I forgive them? Yes, for they do not know what they are doing.

So what does Scripture say of the ignorant, what is their fate?

“When a leader sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the commands of the LORD his God, he is guilty.” (Leviticus 4:22)

“If a member of the community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD’s commands, he is guilty.” (Leviticus 4:27)

“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge …” (Hosea 4:6)

“Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge …” (Isaiah 5:2)

“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16)

All who do not know are condemned to die in their sins. We must not wait for them to die before they know the truth, we must go out and share the gospel to everyone who will listen. Now you may be asking yourself, “Who then can be saved?” Seeing that many perish in their ignorance.

"For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentilethe same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:10-13)

What about those who have not heard? How about those who do not know?

"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” (Romans 10:14-15)

There is obviously those who have not heard, and those who have not been sent to them to hear. This is a fact and all who are ignorant are guilty of sin and those who have not trusted in the Lord are destroyed, held captive and condemned. This sounds horrible, indeed it does, even the disciples were astounded when Jesus spoke to them of who will be saved. Though the truth remains as Hosea had said, due to ignorance God’s people perish. So we have a duty and a calling to those who are perishing, to go out and share with them them the good news so they too may be saved.

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 29:18-20)

“…but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)

“He told them, ‘The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.’” (Luke 10:2)

As ambassadors of Christ, with the great commission in our hearts, we are obligated to be His witness to all the earth. Yet, despite all the work we do in the Name of Jesus, we have missed many. There is the people in the remotest part of the earth who did not hear, there are people who have not heard and will not believe and above all that the workers are few! How miserable we are to fail in our task, how much vanity do we strive and labour to bring the gospel to the far reaches of the earth. So do we just give up? Let it not be so, our hope anchored and secure, we should know without a shadow of a doubt, Jesus Christ is Savior of all mankind.

“This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.” (1 Timothy 4:9,10)

So do not doubt and lose sight of that which is before us, let us come to our senses because while there is blood flowing through our veins. Let us not sin and become lazy but continue to do the good work set before us. There are still many who are ignorant of God and we have commission to complete. Do not listen to those who doubt, for they are double-minded and should not expect to see anything from the Lord; in all their ways they are unstable. Those who say, “Let us eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die.” will die and take anyone who listens to them with them to the grave.

“So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. For in just a very little while, “He who is coming will come and will not delay. But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.” (Hebrews 10:35-39)

Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of GodI say this to your shame. (1 Corinthians 15:34-35)

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.” (Hebrews 12:1-3)

What of the ones we cannot reach, what if they are unable to listen? With astonishment and bewilderment, beyond all expectations we gasp, “Who then can be saved?”

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:25,26 )

The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.” (Mark 10:26,27)

Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus replied, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.”(Luke 18:26)

There is one death that is common to all, that is natural death. It is destined for all once to die and then face judgment. Will there be any without excuse, will there be any who will stand before God and say, “I did not know.” With all authority in heaven and earth and that which is under the earth, I guarantee you all will know. None are without excuse. What is impossible for man is possible with God. In fact not only will they know, but they too will confess and be saved. As Romans 10:10-13 said, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” and everyone will. In the last days, He shall raise everyone from the dead and everyone will appear before Him.

Then he said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’ Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. (Ezekiel 37:11-13)

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (Habakkuk 2:14)

This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:3,4)

This is not some fantasy, or myth. This is the reality, all will know Him and all will confess His Name. It is the Will of God that all men to be be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth and what ever God wills, it shall be done. Nothing can separate us from the Love of God which delights in the truth and always enduring, preserving and never failing. None who stand before God are ignorant and those have been destroyed, captured or killed because of their ignorance shall be raised up from the dead and know that He is their Lord and Savior.

So what does Scripture say of the ignorant, what is their fate?

“When a leader sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the commands of the LORD his God, he is guilty.” (Leviticus 4:22)

The answer:

He shall burn all the fat on the altar as he burned the fat of the fellowship offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for the man’s sin, and he will be forgiven. (Leviticus 4:27)

“If a member of the community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD’s commands, he is guilty.” (Leviticus 4:27)

The answer:

He shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. In this way the priest will make atonement for him, and he will be forgiven. (Leviticus 4:31)

It says that though through their ignorance they are guilty of sin and should die, they have a high priest who makes atonement for them and they are forgiven. They will be raised in the last day and be forgiven.

The priest is to make atonement for the whole Israelite community, and they will be forgiven, for it was not intentional and they have brought to the LORD for their wrong an offering made by fire and a sin offering. The whole Israelite community and the gentiles living among them will be forgiven, because all the people were involved in the unintentional wrong.

'But if just one person sins unintentionally, he must bring a year-old female goat for a sin offering. The priest is to make atonement before the LORD for the one who erred by sinning unintentionally, and when atonement has been made for him, he will be forgiven. (Numbers 15:25-28)

It says though they are law breakers unintentionally, all of them will be forgiven by the priest who makes atonement before the Lord. Do we have such a priest? Do we have such a sacrifice?

"Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer. Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord. (Acts 3:17-19)

Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 5:1-3)

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. (Hebrews 7:23-27)

Such a high priest meets our needone who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures. (1 Corinthians 15:3)

He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. (1 Thessalonians 5:10)

So continue fighting the good fight of faith, share the riches of God’s Kingdom with those who have an ear to hear. They do not need to be condemned to death not hearing the words that bring them salvation and healing. They do not need to wait until the second resurrection of the dead, but participate in the first resurrection of the dead. So for those who are ignorant and do not know, God is gentle with them and why he has offered His Son Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sins, whether they know it or not.

I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 1:12-13)

Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:29-31)

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:22-28)

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:18)

So in conclusion, there is none who will face God ignorant. Everyone shall witness, bow to, and confess the Name of Jesus and be saved. Let us not become lazy and hope that someone will come to them before they die, they can have eternal life now and all they need is the messenger whose feet are beautiful because he brings good news. So what are you doing sitting there reading this? Get out there and start sharing the good news!

Student of the Word

I wish I had that as a bumper sticker! :smiley:

If that’s the negative side of the gospel (although offhand I don’t recall any use of the word “evangelion” in the New Testament that comes with a warning, even when the angel is proclaiming “the eonian evangel” in the sky above the impenitent sinners in RevJohn), the positive gospel would be: God is committed to persistently motivating all of us!

(Whether we’d like Him to or not. Thus leading to the fate of those impenitent sinners in RevJohn… :wink: )