The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Do you believe the Bible is infallible? If so, why?

Interesting. Thanks.

I wonder if @JasonPratt or @james.goetz or @Cindy_Skillman would care to weigh in on the link above entitled “Why Be A Christian?” by Marcus Borg?

Hi Dave, Could you please include the link in the same post as your question? I hate to say that I am still struggling with some of the dynamics with the latest forum software and I cannot easily find the link entitled “Why Be A Christian?” by Marcus Borg :slight_smile:

Dave, one thing I do agree with is that the Bible is not about life after we leave the earth. However, in the quotation that Davo has pointed out here:

There is something we have to do. We must be transformed or made in the “image of God.” I believe the basic simple truths of the Christian faith were there in the beginning of creation, before man added all the extras. And that there have been men in various times and places throughout history still believing in and living by these basic principles.

Yes, Dave, thanks for asking. I agree with Davo and the reviewer that the joint effort of Borg and Wright is wonderful, and a beautiful example of two Biblically knowledgeable scholars respectfully comparing notes despite their differing approaches. Indeed, I think it reveals much about Borg as a unique liberal in being able to respectfully dialogue with Wright’s strong evangelical personality (albeit Wright’s non-fundamentalist breadth lets him return the favor). Indeed, the reason I think progressive evangelicals often appreciate Borg is because he focuses more on affirming what he sees as the abiding truths in the classic doctrines, rather than just focusing on what he does not find literally true. One can easily sense with Borg that he genuinely does not want to just denigrate Christian tradition or ‘throw out the baby with the bathwater.’ And both men share an emphasis on how our faith shapes and transforms us in the now, and to our high calling to love and edifying our world.

And yes, you’re right to see his influence and parallels to my own views. As you know my reading of the NT has been esp. influenced by Wright. And I’d guess, being less orthodox and Biblicist than Wright, I am somewhere between Wright and Borg. I share Borg’s inclinations e.g. to look beneath the Biblical pronouncements to ask what concerns and realities underneath that were driving their vantage point, indeed to recognize the humanness of the perspective the Bible contains, to share a more universalist vision than even a progressive Wright, and also to see some significant commonalities in various faith traditions.

OTOH, while relating to some of Borg’s more skeptical approach, I’m closer to Wright in making engagement with Scripture paramount, in seeing the Gospels as reliable history, and in affirming an actual resurrection and unique superiority of Jesus over other faiths. And I’m not ready to embrace as much of a process theology view of God as is Borg (though I respect why it has appeal). But I share that his epistemology is wider that a dogmatic reading of texts.

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The process is called Theosis, in EO theology. And deification in RC theology. Other traditions would say they have tools, to also aid - in this endeavor. Like the ceremonies, of the Red Road. Or the meditative and contemplative traditions, like Yoga (1, 2) and Zen. Which I say can enhance the Christian journey…as long as we focus on the methodology… versus what they offer theologically and philosophically. I did detail this more, in the Path.

Sure enough!

Notta.:grimacing:

Yepper :wink:

I don’t actually see it that way. It is the immortality that Jesus brought to light that addresses one of mankind’s deepest questions - is death the end? The Christian answer, the hope of eternal life with one another and God, frees believers to enjoy this life more, to find true depth, to have hope in bad times, and to begin to live now in the light of that glorious promise.

While belief in an after-death great divide has typically led to focus on the supposed requirements, I agree with Dave that the hope that death is ultimately defeated should free us to live fully in love and the practice of Jesus’ values.

Well…Jesus taught that doing good was necessary in order to experience a resurrection of life, and that those who do evil, will experience a resurrection of judgment. So clearly there is a requirement to live a good life if we are going to enter into life. There’s nothing wrong with requirements. The problem is with people who want to avoid meeting the requirements.

Hear the words of Jesus!

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. (John 5:28,29 ESV)

Nope. There is as much or more evidence that there is a great spiritual place for us past death.

Actually I would go so far as to acknowledge a wonderful physical place for us - in our renewed bodies, on the renewed earth, in the renewed cosmos in addition to what you said. That’s always been the hope!

Well in terms of evangelicalism I think the evidence is there, writ large — in my experience at least.

My understanding is that for ancient cultures in the main such things were more often assumed than questioned… that came more with western enlightenment and industrialisation.

God alone is immortal… so Jesus bringing… “immortality to light” speaks more to the revelation of God through the person of Christ, i.e., “he who has seen me has seen the Father” etc.

Well in terms of that glorious promise, i.e., the resurrection, that was a promise to Israel alone (Acts 26:6-8) AND can be understood as speaking of and to Israel’s covenant renewal aka “the restoration of all things” etc.

That is indeed one traditional view.

Another aspect is to view John’s “new heaven and earth” motif of Revelation in kind with his fellow NT writer Paul, i.e., such things speaks of the new covenant reality… aka, “if any man be in Christ his is a new creation” — this is text understanding text.

Chad to LLC.

But I agree with LLC. We must warn the people, about the tribulation and Z-Hell (1, 2, 3)

The resurrection is a promise to all, as you quote here:

" If ANY MAN be in Christ his is a new creation."

I agree.:grinning:

As was the OT pattern and reality that “any man” joining ‘the commonwealth if Israel’ enjoyed the full benefits of Israel — the resurrection promised to Israel was covenant restoration, i.e., the abolition of death aka EXILE. Through the redemption of Israel came the reconciliation of the wider world.

Totally spot on, and the ‘covenant restoration’ was given to all of us… The world as you say was reconciled no matter if they know it or not.:thinking: ‘THAT WILL HURT’:laughing:

Or even want it or not, apparently?