False dilemma. I prefer to receive the enabling grace of God made available by the sacrifice of Christ whose purpose it was “to train us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives” and “to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works.” (Titus 2)
…that’s good, you can always trust Paul.
Davo, I don’t get into the practices of pagan religious cults who believed in some god that required animal OR human sacrifices to be appeased. I’ll leave that belief to others like the crazy Mayans.
Yes, sin is the enemy. As Moses said, “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart , that you may do it. See I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in his ways…but if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them I announce to you today that you shall surely perish.”
Good points HF. There are many other people as well, that God has worked through, throughout the ages; Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ruth, Job, Samson, the prophets, Cyrus, David, etc.etc. including Jesus. And God continues to work through those who trust Him despite all the evils of the world.
As for the OP, John says this “If you say you have no sin then the truth is not in you.” And if you’re asking the question, “Does sin exist anymore?” then you are blind to the world around you. When the blind lead the blind, both fall into a ditch.
It’s important to note that that was written before AD 70. If AD 70 was the parousia, then that could change everything.
qaz, so were the Ten Commandments.
Murder, theft, false witness, covetousness, rape, etc.etc. didn’t suddenly become moral after the parousia, nor is God well pleased with those who practice such things.
I wouldn’t be too perturbed at her criticism… she’ll quote Jesus’ words out one side of her mouth while rejecting Jesus’ words out the other.
Sin was never ‘done away with’ by Christs work. Our relationship with God because of sin changed because of the faith of Jesus. Big difference.
Also just my .02cents worth.
That is good, and it is the very reason that Christ’s faith was/is the reason for salvation. It was the faith of Christ that exonerated free will man, so man remained free and shows that God was an understanding Creator.
MM, It is having faith in the words of Christ and doing them that sets you free, as James 1: 25 says, “But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.”
James 1:21 'Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word which is able to save your souls."
John 17:17 “Sanctify them by the truth, teach them your word.”
John 6:63 “The Spirit gives life, the flesh profits nothing.”
It is faith in these words: Isaiah 1:16-18 “Cease to do evil, learn to do good…though your sins are like scarlet they shall be white as snow.”
NOT these words Lev.4 and 5- Sacrifice an animal and your sins will be forgiven.
The parousia was a reaping of what was sown, and we STILL reap what we sow. That has not changed.
Of- means pertaining to
indicating an association between two entities, typically one of belonging
expressing the relationship between a general category or type and the thing being specified which belongs to such a category.
There are many different faiths, and the word of is a distinction between them.
For example : I don’t belong to the faith of Roman Catholics, the faith of Islam, or the faith of Jews. I belong to the faith of Christ, or the faith/words associated with Christ.
In what way does Jesus have or need faith? I listened to Michael Williamses’ message on this and I didn’t hear an answer. Mebbe you can help?
Well, I’m pondering becoming Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. In fact, I am a prospect for both. As I am an Eastern Orthodox prospect and an RC RCIA attendee.
But the RC concept of sin is very legalistic. I understand it’s a legacy, from the Jesuits and St. Augustine.
For example. In RC, its a sin to miss a Sunday mass. But in EO theology, it’s not a sin to miss the Divine Liturgy.
The RC church divides sin into moral and venial sin. The Orthodox don’t and look on sin as sin.
The RC church views that we are all guilty of original sin. The EO church looks on all as guilty of ancestral sin. Adam and Eve are the only ones, guilty of original sin.
What I do during RCIA class, is look at an RC teaching. Then I ask what is the Orthodox take on it. And so far, I’m more in tune with the Orthodox. Yet I view both churches as having valid orders, sacraments and saints. No offense to any Catholics, on this forum. For me, the EO provides a framework - for me to view theology.
Dave, As John says, no man has ever seen God. We believe in things that are unseen; the intrinsic values and principles of life that are “more precious that gold.” And Jesus, even though He suffered, held on to these things just as Job (and others) did.
LLC - I understand your point. What I was thinking about was the contention by M. Williams and others that we don’t need faith - that we live by the faith OF the Son of God. Not IN, but OF.
And my question really was - what faith does Jesus have? How can He believe FOR US? The concept is very hard to understand and SEEMS to be a kind of contradiction.
Dave, I agree. Jesus can’t believe for us.
We definitely need faith. As I mentioned before, There are may different faiths and the OF is a distinction between them. For example:
A grain of mustard seed
A grain of barley
A grain of wheat
Of specifies what kind of grain.
Jesus had faith in the Holy Spirit and His words, and we have the same faith.
I think those who read the genitive constructions as the “faith of Christ,” usually interpret pistis as referring to Jesus’ “faithfulness” in our behalf, rather than as his beliefs.
Don’t try to understand it like that because that’s NOT how it is or what it means. Bob notes the point well…
Simply put… we live because of Christ’s faithfulness.