The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Doubting? This Will Help

Evangelical Universalism
#1

Hello everyone, for anyone still struggling with the whole aionion/aionios thing I want to share with you something that has for me, put the nail in the coffin on this issue once and for all.

I believe the OT Hebrew word olam and the NT word for olam which is aionios/aionion etc. does in fact mean forever. But only forever unless the scriptures say otherwise.

If there is no indication in scripture that the object that the olam, aionios,aionion etc. is attached to will end, then I think it is safe to assume that it will continue on forever.

For example, the Scriptures say that God’s mercy,love,power,honor etc. are aionon. Is there any indication in scripture that those qualities of God will end? No there isnt. So they last forever.

There are scores of verses in the OT that refer to something that was olam that have ended.

Christ reign is “eis tou aionios ton aionon” Rev. 11:15
Is Christs reign eternal or forever and ever?

One would think so. But the scriptures clearly state that “He must reign UNTIL he has put all his enemies under his feet” 1 Cor. 15:25

Rev. 11:15 And 1 Cor. 15:25 completey shut down any possibility of aionion meaning eternal.

And here’s the verse that the eternal torturist loves to throw in your face… Matt. 25:46

“Then they will go away to aionion punishment, but the righteous to aionion life.”

If life is “eternal” then punishment is eternal right? WRONG!

Is there any indication in scripture that aionion life will end? Nope. So it is eternal. Is there any indication that aionon punishment will end? Absolutely!

1 cor. 15:25-28, Eph. 1:9-10, Phil. 2:10-11, Roms. 11:36. Just to name a few.

1 cor. 15:25-28 is a powerful verse that transcends the book of Revelation. Where in Revalations does it even hint about Jesus delivering up the Kingdom and subjecting all enemies under his feet?

Why is He still reigning unto the ages of the ages? To watch people burn? Of course not! It’s because He still has work to do and prophecies to fulfill in reconciling the rest of mankind unto Himself so that God can be all in all!

Praise God, He truly is good, and loving and merciful just like the scriptures says! Hope this helps

#2

The meaning of the adjective “αιωνιος” (aionios) does not include any specific time period, whether short, long, or everlasting. The adjective can be applied to that which is short, long, or everlasting, but that doesn’t imply that such periods comprise part of the meaning. The word simply means “lasting” and this meaning applies to every occurrence of the adjective in Greek scripture.

God Himself is lasting! Yes, He’s everlasting, and that which is EVERlasting is lasting. Josephus pronounced Jonathan’s time in prison as “αιωνιος” though it lasted only three years. Still—it was lasting.

Just translate the word as “lasting”, and you’ll never be wrong. This translation fits every context.

#3

The meaning of the adjective “αιωνιος” (aionios) does not include any specific time period, whether short, long, or everlasting. The adjective can be applied to that which is short, long, or everlasting, but that doesn’t imply that such periods comprise part of the meaning. The word simple means “lasting” and this meaning applies to every occurrence of the adjective in Greek scripture.

Yes i think Young’s describe “aionios” as duration and of course applicable to the object.

#4

This is why Young rightly uses the terms “age-during” or “to the age” BECAUSE the adjective “aionios” was FULLY relative to said “aion” = age, whatever its length or duration. God has been and continues to be the God of whatever age or timeframe has endured.

#5

Hi Davo,

The meaning of the adjective “αιωνιος” does not necessarily include the meaning of the noun from which it is derived, that is, “αιων” (age).

Consider the fact that the meaning of the English adjective “former” has no relevance to the noun “form.”
The most common understanding of the adjective “terrible” is “very bad,” or “disagreeable” or “lousy,” etc.—very unlike in meaning to the noun “terror” from which it is derived.

The Septuagint uses “αιωνιος” to describe Jonah’s three-day stay in the belly of the fish. It doesn’t seem natural to refer to a three-day period as an “age” (although it probably felt like an age to Jonah, especially if he thought he would never get out).

However, “lasting” as a meaning of “αιωνιος” seems to fit every context.

#7

This could be true, however your choice of words “not necessarily” indicates that your examples don’t “necessarily” fit this case with regards to “αιωνιος” and “αιων” — which is why I suspect the likes of Young’s Translation has determined that “age-during” is a suitable rendition of “αιωνιος”.

I’m thinking for that very reason it seems quite natural given Jonah is the subject and he’s stuck in the dark depths of a massive fish’s belly NOT knowing IF/WHEN he might get out. I’d be thinking this is forever way before 72hrs. :confused:

#9

Yeah I know… and we’ve had this discussion before. The ANE folk didn’t have our western mindset, so could handle these things that you as a 21st centenarian continually find difficult to grasp.

#10

Hey qaz, you know translations can be anything the translator wants, and then it is up to the *students *to search out and study and get it right. Kind of like what folks here are doing. I’m sure that the original ideas that the original text expound upon may be hard to translate to other languages. But we gotta try :question: :smiley: