The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Episcopalian church


I went to a couple services last week at an Episcopalian church. Greatly enjoyed. Unlike the UMC I checked out in the fall, this church uses wine during communion! The worship structure is very similar to RC, which i like.


Yes. But they also allow gay marriages and ordinations. Which I believe, you said you are against (for the record, I am against these things too).

But I am in favor, of ordaining P-Zombies and Zombies. :exclamation: :smiley:


Your exclamation mark seems to suggest that using wine is unusual. Don’t all the historic churches use wine?—the Catholic, Orthodox, Episcopalian, Lutheran, etc.? One of the churches we attend also uses wine, and shares communion every Sunday. That fellowship of churches refer to themselves as “This present move of God.” They think it is important to use unleavened bread and unleavened wine. Wine is considered to be unleavened since all the yeast cells in the wine-making process fall to the bottom as dregs, and the pure unleavened (no yeast) wine is removed from the top, whereas grape juice is leavened (contains yeast cells).

The so-called “Plymouth Brethren” also use wine and hold communion every Sunday. When we lived for 3 years in Manitoba, we regularly attended one of their assemblies.

I think someone has said, “It’s better to drink blood with the Catholics than to drink grape juice with the Baptists.”


Randy, I thought it was up to each Episcopalian congregation to determine how homosexuality is handled.


I’m not sure on that one. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable here, can speak to that matter.


Here’s a fairly recent statement: … pal-church


Thanks Dave. Yeesh, I didn’t realize it was that bad. Looks like my search for a church continues… :frowning:


Any church that uses real wine, I am all in. :unamused:


What do you guys think is the future of non-fundamentalist protestantism? Will it continue to be liberal and lose membership (like the ELCA) and close churches? Or will new there be an awakening in which conservative (non-fundamentalist) churches start to sprout up?


As soon as I polish my crystal ball, I’ll let you know. I think it is stuck, in a black hole :exclamation: :laughing:


Randy, you are the one who first told me about ACNA. How are they doing? Is the denomination in good shape? Also, would they be okay with a universalist taking communion?


The ACNA (I.e. or is really in good shape. And they espouse the conservative Christian values, that both of us enjoy. And most churches in that umbrella - practice open communication.

Would they be OK, with a universalist taking communion? One could extend that question, to any church group or denomination. The answer is: it depends. And I advise universalists here, to follow the old US military rule - on gay rights. It was “Don’t ask. Don’t tell”. So to put it in plain English. If they don’t ask you, if you are a univeralist…Then you don’t tell them.


Randy, do you attend a ACNA church? Unfortunately there are none near me. If you have, can you tell me what a typical service is like?


Yes I do. I attend one in Winfield, Illinois. A typical service is very much, like a traditional Episcopal church service. Except that there is no gay marriage or gay ordination. I’m not sure how they feel, about P-Zombie or Zombie ordinations. :wink:


If a person goes by “Don’t ask, Don’t tell”, it kind of limits one to a superficial involvement- which can be ok if someone just wants to assemble with some believers once in awhile for the therapeutic benefit of it. Sooner or later the person “comes out” or gets outed, as a universalist and appears to be a deceiver in the modst, awaiting the opportunity to lead some saints “astray”. To much of a mind bend for me… but I agree with maintenance man on this. If they serve wine for communion, weekly, I would be more positively disposed- especially if they use a goblet, like the Holy Grail :wink:


Eaglesway, what kind of church do you attend?


They do serve real wine, at the church I attend. In a traditional communion cup (i.e. Goblet)… Folks who are universalists…and attend a traditional church worship service…need to determine their own approaches.

Personally, I haven’t seen a fire and brimstone sermon, in a continuing Anglican church. Nor have I seen one on the EWTN RC TV station, Joel Osteen TV ministry, or the Lutheran and community churches - I sometimes attend.

If you really wanted one, you might find it emphasized, in a Bible, Baptist or Fundamentalist church. :laughing:

Nor have I seen this subject discussed, in the continuing Anglican, adult Sunday discussions.

I’m sure most folks - if you press them…would side with some type of ECT position…rather than one of exile, annihilation or universalism.

I just don’t like to start fights. Hence, I never query folks in congregations, regarding their position on hell. But I am well prepared…theologically and philosophically…to take up the mantle…if push comes to shove.

But they might cut me some slack, when I tell them I’m a hopeful universalist. But take the “official” position of Inclusivist / Purgatorical Conditionalist;


Even though the Episcopalian leadership condones homosexuality, I might attend the Episcopal church near me anyway. The congregation itself doesn’t advertise as being pro-LGBT.

According to Luther:

(Large Catechism)

That to me suggests that even if a priest is part of an erring institution, he can still administer communion!

Luther’s writing, of course, isn’t part of the Bible. Do you guys think I would be sinning to attend a church that’s part of a denomination that gets sexual morality wrong?


No. I have attended churches, where I’m not 100%, in accordance with their theology. But I’m NOT a member, of those churches. I see no sin in attending any mainline Christian church. Or, for that matter, watching any clergy or church service, on TV, radio or the Internet. But it would be a sin, if you became a member. And agree to policies, you do not believe in. It would be a lie, wouldn’t it?

Heck, I might be in BIG trouble…for joining Native Americans, in their spiritual ceremonies…Or joining Buddhists, in their meditation practices… Or using healers, who are not Christian…Or trying to stay true, to the historical, Holy Fools tradition… Or even watching health and prosperity, TV evangelist - Joe Osteen, on TV.

And if things get real bad, at a church. - guess what? Heaven may send a squirrel, to straighten things out :exclamation: :laughing: