The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Evangelical Universalist Church

Practices Christian Living
#53

No one should ever be rude or belligerent, no matter their belief. It’s very unbecoming. Hopefully,that is a given.

What’s been a frustration in our church, specificly for my husband, is that there is not a willingness to study (in depth about anything, much less UR), even as questions arise naturally in the text. As soon as people sense you are questioning the endorsed view they get uncomfortable real quick. Maybe this isn’t most churches? They’ve got their conclusions figured out and calling it into question is usually not welcome, as much as evangelicals like to pride themselves in welcoming questions. I have a feeling, Luke, that if you had a real knowledgeable person on UR, in one of your bible studies, posing difficult questions (respectfully ,of course), that it would not go over well. It’s very disconcerting for people to rethink their system of understanding. I have a hard time with it. There are also the people that think it’s the Pastor’s role to shut down any seemingly questionable activity. My church is always worried about false teachers getting in and convincing people of false doctrine. I’m guessing, though, if it were possible to do a test on this we’d find out how very difficult it is to get people to even consider thinking about a new idea, much less settle on it. They are so set you’d think they were stuck in concrete. :smiley: I mean, if you can’t bring yourself to contemplate a notion as wonderful and motivating as God being able to save all, what will you contemplate? The person believing UR is up against it, for sure! I think, with just a little transparency, we stand to get the boot, if we aren’t careful.

#54

In my experience that usually means they like questions that have a stock denominational answer.

#55

Amy:

That has been my experience in any church I have been in.
In reality there is no room for real questions. The tribe feels threatened. The only thing that holds the tribe together is a creed set in stone. Maintaining the integrity (pun intended) of the tribe is far more important than any search for truth.

#56

This was interesting (from the web site of The Polish National Catholic Church.)

69.163.222.11/faith/eleven-great … ic-church/

#57

Very interesting, Michael! Thank you for sharing that–it’s so encouraging to see a church that openly affirms UR! Is anyone here personally familiar with them?

Sonia

#58

You’re welcome Sonia.

I’d be interested in whether anyone knows more about them too.

#59

Hi Luke
That makes good sense to me, thank you. I just wonder what happens in ‘open meetings’ (eg house groups) where all are encouraged to discuss texts. There seem to be so many texts that a URist would interpret differently that the URist would be raising the topic very frequently. Even if this is done as courteous fair exchange without rudeness or beligerence Is this to be tolerated?

#60

From reading these posts, there doesn’t seem to be anyone who attends a local church where the reconcilation of all to God is believed. (I must admit I have not read carefully and may have missed it if someone does attend such a church). In my own case, I am blessed to be part of a circle of fellowship where universal reconciliation to God is believed and is occasionally taught, or at least mentioned. I avoid calling myself a “Universalist” since this term is commonly understood as applying to someone who believes that everyone will automatically go to heaven when they die. That is certainly not my belief.

My mother, sister, and the church I attended as a teen-ager, and other churches I attended thereafter believed and taught everlasting punishment. I was convinced that the Bible taught it.

*…then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’
Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:41-46 RSV

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10 RSV*

Then when I was about 40, my wife and I began to attend a church which had many of the practices of the first and second century church. They practised body ministry (every Christian present was considered to be a minister); they had communion every Sunday; the women wore a devotional head covering, etc. etc. I was amazed. I had never seen a church practising the things I was reading about in the New Testament and second century writings.

One day, while we were attending a summer camp of the group, one of the leading brethren was talking to another at the dinner table. “I never could believe in an eternal hell”, he was saying. I was utterly shocked! “What have I gotten myself into? This is a cult!” I said to myself. That afternoon, I walked around that camp ground in a daze. I was deeply disturbed. Then it seemed God was reaching out to me. I didn’t hear an audible voice, but in my heart I heard, “Don’t worry about any of this. All will be made clear.” So I “put it on the shelf” so to speak. After I went home, it seemed that whenever I read the Bible, I saw the reconciliation in the passage I was reading. I studied the meaning of the Greek words translated as “eternal” or “everlasting”, and “for ever and ever”, and became convinced that they were mistranslated. Within a week, I experienced a total paradigm revolution! I believed in the ultimate reconciliation of all people to God!

When I shared my understanding with my mother and siblings, they were shocked. They considered me to have embraced heresy, and never changed their minds about that. One brother stated that I had “alienated” myself from the family (apparently simply by holding my belief in ultimate reconciliation).

So since about 1978, I have been fellowshipping with the “heretical” church that believes in the eventual reconciliation of all people to God, and that true Christians are agents of that reconciliation.

The Fellowship of Evangelical Universalists
#61

Please tell us more about this Church!

#62

What would you like to know? Just ask questions, and I will attempt to answer them.

#63

How would I find this Church (if there were one in my area)?

And what must I believe to join?

I can believe in UR?

What if I believe in the Trinity?

What if I’m Binitarian?

Would I have to be a Modelist (or Arian)?

Could I be premillenialist?

Would I have to be baptized again?

#64

How would I find this Church (if there were one in my area)?

I’m sorry but I don’t know where you can find one. To the best of my knowledge there is no record of all the churches anywhere. Someone else (or was it you) asked me this question. So I emailed the secretary, who is also one of the leading brethren. He did not respond.

And what must I believe to join?

There is no such thing as joining one of these local assemblies. They are expressions of the only church that there is, and they recognize that there may be other expressions of the Church. If you make it known that you are a disciple of Christ, that is, a Christian, you will have full privileges of fellowship and may exercise your ministry whether it be speaking, or singing, or praying, or prophesying.

I can believe in UR?

I don’t know anyone in any of the churches of the group who do not believe in the ultimate reconcilation of all to God. So if you believe this, they would be pleased that you came to this understanding.

What if I believe in the Trinity?

Most of the people in these churches and possibly all of the leading brethren believe in the Trinity. But theological beliefs are not a condition for fellowship.

What if I’m Binitarian?

You wouldn’t be rejected on that account. I myself am not a Trinitarian.

Would I have to be a Modelist (or Arian)?

Nope. There may be a few modalists in the group since the group came into existence through a special moving of the Spirit of God in a Pentecostal Bible School, but I am not aware of any. I doubt that there are any Arians at all.

Could I be premillenialist?

The group in general are post-tribulation premillenialists .

Would I have to be baptized again?

No. The group recognizes as baptism those were in the denominational churches, and have been immersed. I am not sure whether or not they would suggest baptism for those whose form of “baptism” was affusion or aspersion.

#65

Wow!!!

THANK YOU.

This should be of interest to everyone here.

I (for one) had no idea such groups existed.

THANK YOU!!!

#66

Rob Bell’s Church is also interesting.

Here’s a link to their web site.

marshill.org/believe/

#67

I think it is hard to find “Christian” Universlism churches. I have yet to know of any in my area, if I did I would sure go and visit for sure. Perhaps it depends on where you live, I live in a very legalistic religious town…SIGH! …Very close minded… :unamused:

#68

OK Paidion, I would like to have a time of fellowship with you and your ekklesia next Lord’s Day. What is the address and time of fellowship, I in :stuck_out_tongue:

You sound like the Plymouth Brethren, the early years :laughing: (but with a little b, they’re so humble you know :wink: ), but I know that they DO NOT believe in UR. But at least they know where in the next town is an Assembly of Believers that gather under the headship of the Lord Jesus Christ alone, with NT Principle and Practices so that any Believer may have fellowship and Break Bread as they travel. What’s the big secret?

If they have conferences as you mentioned in an earlier post, they must know how to contact the other fellowships, to pass around the news of their plans. You have told us that there are fellowships in Canada, USA and in other parts of the world.

Come now brother Paidion, fess up. :wink:

Or maybe they are a secret society that you can only be invited to by another member? :cry: Secret handshake and all :sunglasses:

Come now Paidion… share :slight_smile:

#69

Hey Paidion
Sounds very much like what we are trying to do here in Windsor with our humble little Byng Road Ekklesia House Church. All are welcome, we are UR friendly :slight_smile: and we don’t bite :wink:. But we are from a Plymouth Brethren background.

#70

There’s nothing to confess, Pilgrim. I have stated that I will share all I know of this expression of the Church (which is sometimes called “The Move”. Outsiders call it “The North Battleford Group” since it had its origin in North Battleford, Saskatchewan due to a special moving of the Holy Spirit in 1948 in which God restored the five-fold ministy to the Church.

As far as I know, there is no official list of churches. I do know that most of the churches are located outside of North America. I also know there is at least one church in the following locations:
Henry, Illinois
Omaha, Nebraska
High Point, North Carolina
Milwauki, Wisconsin
St. Louis, Missouri
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Montevideo, Minnesota
St. Charles, Illinois
Peoria, Illinois
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Winkler, Manitoba
North Battleford, Saskatchewan

Yes, there are a few similarities between this circle of fellowship and the “Plymouth Brethren” (In my twenties, I fellowshipped with an assembly of PB). Here are the similarities:

  1. Communion every Sunday
  2. Body ministry
  3. No formal membership. Genuine Christians are recognized as members
  4. God is a trinity

Here are some of the differences:

  1. NB: post-tribulation, PB: pre-tribulation

  2. NB: A brother appointed by the elders “opens” or begins the meeting, usually with group singing. When he is finished the meeting is open to anyone to minister, both sisters and brothers.
    PB: The meeting is open for body ministry right from the start. Only brothers may minister in this way. Sisters are to be silent except in group singing.

  3. NB: The churches are under the authority of the leading brethren, also known as “apostles”. God restored the church in 1948.
    PB: The churches are independent, and are governed by the local elders. The Church is presently in a state of ruin.

  4. NB: Ideally, the Lord will reveal a theme for the meeting.
    PB: Every Sunday morning meeting is a gathering to worship and praise Jesus for His sacrifice.

5: NB:The elements of the communion are wine and unleavened bread.
PB: The elements of the communion are wine and leavened bread.

  1. NB: The communion is mostly separate from the rest of the meeting. Only elders give thanks for the bread and wine.
    PB: The communion is central to the whole meeting. Any brother may give thanks for the bread or the wine as the Spirit leads.

  2. NB: Anyone present may take communion
    PB: 1.(open brethren) If there are visitors, the elders talk to them as they enter, and try to determine whether they are Christians. If they think the visitors are true Christians, they are invited to participate fully. If they think not, the visitors are ushered to a bench in the back to which the bread and wine are not passed — but neither is the collection bag!

  3. (tight brethren) The only people who are permitted to participate in the communion are those who have applied to the elders for fellowship.

  4. (exclusive brethren). I have heard that it is almost impossible to participate. I do not know the logistics.

  5. NB: It is believed that all people will be eventually reconciled to God.
    PB: It is believed that many people will be sentenced to endless, conscious, punishment in hell.

  6. NB: The gifts of the Spirit presently operate in the Church.
    PB: The gifts of the Spirit ceased when the last book of the Bible was written.

Some Beliefs in which I differ from the NB group:

  1. I am non-Trinitarian
  2. I think that there are some factual errors in the Bible.
  3. I do not believe in the existence of a “soul” of “spirit” separate from the body, which goes to heaven or hell at death.

The NB group’s main publication is “The Sharon Star”. You can view it by clicking of the link below:

thesharonstar.org/

#71

Greetings Paidon, I was reading through the Sharonstar statement of faith and I saw that it said that those that were filled with the Holy Spirit must show it by speaking in tongues. I grew up in the pentecostal church and growing up in that, the pressure was always very high to speak in tongues. I remember being a young teenager begging God to give me the gift of tongues. I remember being a young man begging God to give me the gift of tongues. It never did happen though I asked God thousands of times in my youth. I no longer have that urgency that I did in my youth, though I do, every once in a while, still tell God that he could give me that gift if He wanted to. What do you think about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit after your many years and experiences?

#72

The General Lutheran Church is a UR Lutheran denomination.