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probably helps but I think we should all be willing to test the beliefs that we hold.
Indeed it is, and I hope and pray many more will come and be similarly encouraged 
Another way is to press the quote button on the actual post you want to quote. This will put the entire post into a quote including the original author’s name (so you get the ‘JeffA wrote:’ before the body of the quote for example). Large posts obviously need editing down otherwise posts get ridiculously long as quotes within quotes within quotes get multiplied down the thread 
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If you want to follow the simpler version in alex’s post above you can still add the original poster’s name by editing the quote text in your reply as follows:
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blah, blah, blah..
[/quote]This shows as below:
Well, MacDonald was dead when Lewis was a student of him!
Much as MacD was Lewis’ teacher, Lewis has been mine. (And MacD eventually, too. Although I don’t much like thinking in terms of “Teacher” as a title, because Jesus warned us about that. 
)
That was one of the very saddest 45 minutes I’ve ever spent in my life. It just kept going on and getting worse and worse as it went. She knew perfectly well that she wasn’t supposed to think of even the non-elect that way, and constantly kept stressing that she didn’t for a moment believe it to be true–“but just think about it” she would keep saying, like it was perfectly reasonable to use that as a crutch to believe something she herself knew better than to believe was true.
I don’t want to talk about this anymore. It upsets me too much…
Sorry, I forgot to answer this question Jason!
I can’t be of much help there, since I don’t really know. The family is from Taiwan if that helps any. My mom is not really ‘practicing’, but one of my aunts has in her home a piece of furniture that I guess would be considered an altar. She always has–or had anyway (we haven’t been there in a long time) incense burning there, and little statues, and food was put out every day. But I think that was more along the lines of ancestor worship.
When we visited my grandparents’ graves we were expected to bow 3 times and pray (silently)–which was a dilemma for me as a child.
Sometimes we would go to the Temple for lunch (they had a great buffet – and it was cheap!)
Not much help am I? LOL But it seems like their Buddhism is more of a ingrained cultural/superstitious thing than something they really think about to intentionally do. Like many people’s Christianity–who don’t go to church and don’t really pray or study scripture, but believe there’s a God and that Jesus walked the earth, and kinda try to live by the “golden rule”.
Sonia
Amy,
My husband is a teacher at an alternative ed/discipline school. They get the kids who are kicked out of the high school. A lot of the things he’s experienced and learned from working with them has made him more open to UR. In the UR paradigm he sees a God who works with humanity in a similar way to how he has learned to deal with his students–tough love–severity with compassion.
His students include kids whose mothers are prostitutes (it’s legal in Nevada), whose parents are in jail, druggies who get their drugs from their parents and got their first joint from Santa Claus, kids who come from generations of foolish choices and criminal culture. How much to blame are these kids for who they are? Sure they make the bad choices and have to experience the consequences… but given their disadvantages what real chance have they had?
He says it’s really hard to get a good sub.
Sonia
Thanks Alex and Jeff for your help! It seems simple enough. Let’s see if I can do this…
It’s difficult to know how to test our beliefs. I have no trouble bringing it up, but wonder when it’s a good time, especially since no time ever seems good. I suppose there are times that lend themselves to being more natural? And real dialogue that involves genuine questioniong seems the way to go.
I once attended the women’s bible study at my church and I must have made the leader nervous. She was aware of my hope in UR. She asked a question about how we understood a certain verse in Psalm. I cited that another verse, only a couple lines down, expounded on the meaning for me. Nothing I said was controversial, or I don’t think so. I was told that I was not allowed to go beyond the immediate verse! It seemed a little ridiculous to be studying the bible and not looking at the surrounding verses. It was, after all, not a passage study where they would get to the next verses later. They were single verses to try and understand. I sat there in disbelief. In my mind I hadn’t done much to deserve that! It was a rude awakening that they were feeling so on edge around me. And these ladies were the laid back ones! I don’t think they would have treated somebody else like this.
So, it’s tricky to know how to interact with people. It put me on edge and, after that, I worried about saying anything. It sure seems like there is a real lack of bible study and asking of difficult questions.I suppose we aren’t all capable, nor ready for the same thing. That’s where Talbott, through scripture and reasoning, has helped me to not think so criticly of others and not take it personally. I did think, though, it said a lot more about them, that I was in the wrong to bring up a later verse, than it did about me. I took it as a cue about how I was making them feel, if even I hadn’t done much to cause it. It’s hard to be part of a group where you feel like you are walking on eggshells around them. This might explain, too, why I would really like a EU fellowship.
I’ll bet it’s hard to find a good sub! I’m not sure I’d be up for it! It’s difficult enough in the classes where they haven’t been kicked out yet.
I can definitely see how the UR paradigm has been beneficial for your husband. It sure has given me a lot of hope for the ones considered most hopeless. The UR paradigm really popped out at me when dealing with kids in need of such mercy. I don’t think, previously, I realized just how much in need of God’s mercy I was/am. This put it in perspective!
Having come from a hellfire preaching background I can sympathise with the problems you folks encounter when broaching UR within the traditional framework. I can also fully understand the dilemma they face by thinking that if UR is false then they could endanger the salvation of others by spreading it. Fortunately God hasn’t really entrusted the salvation of others to Christians (or we’d all be up the creek without a paddle ). For what it’s worth I am continually astonished by the fact that the more I study UR the more I perceive the fruits of the spirit which seem sadly lacking in many of the ET persuasion.
If your trust and rest are fully in God then you don’t have to worry about any of these situations - Peter only began to sink when he started to trust in his own ability to walk on the water
An interesting thread, some really heartbreaking stories of rejection and some intriguing ways people have found to keep going to church.
Speaking as a non-universalist minister I would not “expel” (not that Anglicans do much of that these days, the tent is very large) a ‘cooperative universalist.’ Allan’s point about unity being more important is a good one, but I like Alex’s desire not to keep something hidden. I would however take the line from the pulpit or in the Bible study that Universalism is wrong, when relevant “all” or “Hell” passages came up. If the universalists wouldn’t undermine that ‘theological line’ and were open to discuss the topic I’d see no reason why they couldn’t stay.
well if I get excommunicated I’ll come and join your church!
Hi Luke
May God bless your ministry.
So is the implication that if a universalist admits to his belief and offers scriptural support when asked (ie that he does not support that ‘theological line’), that you see every reason that he should leave?
Hi Pilgrim,
Not sure I follow the question, but I’d emphasize that, and this’ll differ among ministers, it’s about whether or the person is cooperative or not, in other-words willing to listen, debate and talk rather than be rude or belligerent.
No one should ever be rude or belligerent, no matter their belief. It’s very unbecoming. Hopefully,that is a given.
What’s been a frustration in our church, specificly for my husband, is that there is not a willingness to study (in depth about anything, much less UR), even as questions arise naturally in the text. As soon as people sense you are questioning the endorsed view they get uncomfortable real quick. Maybe this isn’t most churches? They’ve got their conclusions figured out and calling it into question is usually not welcome, as much as evangelicals like to pride themselves in welcoming questions. I have a feeling, Luke, that if you had a real knowledgeable person on UR, in one of your bible studies, posing difficult questions (respectfully ,of course), that it would not go over well. It’s very disconcerting for people to rethink their system of understanding. I have a hard time with it. There are also the people that think it’s the Pastor’s role to shut down any seemingly questionable activity. My church is always worried about false teachers getting in and convincing people of false doctrine. I’m guessing, though, if it were possible to do a test on this we’d find out how very difficult it is to get people to even consider thinking about a new idea, much less settle on it. They are so set you’d think they were stuck in concrete. I mean, if you can’t bring yourself to contemplate a notion as wonderful and motivating as God being able to save all, what will you contemplate? The person believing UR is up against it, for sure! I think, with just a little transparency, we stand to get the boot, if we aren’t careful.
In my experience that usually means they like questions that have a stock denominational answer.
Amy:
That has been my experience in any church I have been in.
In reality there is no room for real questions. The tribe feels threatened. The only thing that holds the tribe together is a creed set in stone. Maintaining the integrity (pun intended) of the tribe is far more important than any search for truth.
This was interesting (from the web site of The Polish National Catholic Church.)
Very interesting, Michael! Thank you for sharing that–it’s so encouraging to see a church that openly affirms UR! Is anyone here personally familiar with them?
Sonia
You’re welcome Sonia.
I’d be interested in whether anyone knows more about them too.
Hi Luke
That makes good sense to me, thank you. I just wonder what happens in ‘open meetings’ (eg house groups) where all are encouraged to discuss texts. There seem to be so many texts that a URist would interpret differently that the URist would be raising the topic very frequently. Even if this is done as courteous fair exchange without rudeness or beligerence Is this to be tolerated?
From reading these posts, there doesn’t seem to be anyone who attends a local church where the reconcilation of all to God is believed. (I must admit I have not read carefully and may have missed it if someone does attend such a church). In my own case, I am blessed to be part of a circle of fellowship where universal reconciliation to God is believed and is occasionally taught, or at least mentioned. I avoid calling myself a “Universalist” since this term is commonly understood as applying to someone who believes that everyone will automatically go to heaven when they die. That is certainly not my belief.
My mother, sister, and the church I attended as a teen-ager, and other churches I attended thereafter believed and taught everlasting punishment. I was convinced that the Bible taught it.
*…then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’
Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:41-46 RSV
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10 RSV*
Then when I was about 40, my wife and I began to attend a church which had many of the practices of the first and second century church. They practised body ministry (every Christian present was considered to be a minister); they had communion every Sunday; the women wore a devotional head covering, etc. etc. I was amazed. I had never seen a church practising the things I was reading about in the New Testament and second century writings.
One day, while we were attending a summer camp of the group, one of the leading brethren was talking to another at the dinner table. “I never could believe in an eternal hell”, he was saying. I was utterly shocked! “What have I gotten myself into? This is a cult!” I said to myself. That afternoon, I walked around that camp ground in a daze. I was deeply disturbed. Then it seemed God was reaching out to me. I didn’t hear an audible voice, but in my heart I heard, “Don’t worry about any of this. All will be made clear.” So I “put it on the shelf” so to speak. After I went home, it seemed that whenever I read the Bible, I saw the reconciliation in the passage I was reading. I studied the meaning of the Greek words translated as “eternal” or “everlasting”, and “for ever and ever”, and became convinced that they were mistranslated. Within a week, I experienced a total paradigm revolution! I believed in the ultimate reconciliation of all people to God!
When I shared my understanding with my mother and siblings, they were shocked. They considered me to have embraced heresy, and never changed their minds about that. One brother stated that I had “alienated” myself from the family (apparently simply by holding my belief in ultimate reconciliation).
So since about 1978, I have been fellowshipping with the “heretical” church that believes in the eventual reconciliation of all people to God, and that true Christians are agents of that reconciliation.