We should consider ourselves fortunate that Jesus prayed regarding our many ignorances:
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
I can see the contemplative life is doing you wonders, davo.
Where have we seen that quote before. I’m looking forward to you posting it another 50 times. Why not include it in the bottom of all of your posts, too. You could conclude it with “davo, called to serve”.
Or how about:
“Davo, bringing the TRUE gospel of Extreme Hyper Grace no postmortem punishment for Hitler, Stalin, child serial abuser-killers & other monsters everyone is already forgiven and reconciled to God Pantelism.”
The problem with consigning the nazis to postmortem suffering is that by the same token you must also end up consigning their victims to postmortem suffering. I can’t bear the thought that people went from gas chambers to more suffering.
The victims suffering may be over in this life, God is just!
To acknowledge this then Steve you couldn’t possibly be in the Purgatorial Universalist (PU) camp of Paidion & Origen etc, where suffering ramps up a gear postmortem UNTIL one confesses Christ (an act of repentance) finally enabling them entrance into heaven… which ISN’T going to happen, according to their schema, without this purgatorial placement first. Something Paidion says even most believers will endure.
etc.??? Why not name the others too, Davo? Or are Origen and I the major villains?
And why do you have “an act of repentance” in parentheses after “confesses Christ”? In your theology is confessing Christ tantamount to repenting? “Repentance” is having a change of heart and mind. Christian repentance is having a change of heart and mind about how you are living.
Maybe even you need a change of heart and mind about “cussin’, a-drinkin’, chewin’ tobacco, playing cards, impure thoughts about cousin Sally, etc.” rather than decrying “certain evangelical no-no’s.”
Yep pretty much so… only stating the obvious according to your vociferous posts etc. 
Answered right HERE.
I’m always up for improvement in this life WHERE the consequences of “works” have real traction. I’m so glad my ‘good works’ are no qualifier for heaven and likewise, neither my ‘bad works’ a disqualifier from heaven — God’s grace is sufficient to render all FEATS or FAILURE inadmissible!
Are Jason Pratt, Robin Parry & Tom Talbott classified as Purgatorial Universalists?
How about Universalist church fathers, such as Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, etc?
What was George Macdonald’s view on the subject?
Should davo’s following anti-Ultra Universalism quotes be classified as a form of - ultra light - PU, or just simply PU,
or something that is neither UU or PU:
“who in all their prideful arrogance or blind ignorance would not respond in worshipful contrition postmortem, in-kind,
before the presence of God”
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6528&p=117770#p117770
“This was a prophecy about Israel… many rose and enjoyed rewards in the Parousia while other suffered loss of rewards
and shame BUT there is NO trace of PU here — FAIL!”…
“No doubt the more short-sighted thief repented when he stepped through death’s door, finding himself before his Maker
and doing EXACTLY what Isa 45:23 ACTUALLY says above… bowing the knee in contrition (shame).”
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6656&p=117656#p117656
“Purgatorial Universalism was the belief of some of the early church fathers such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Gregory of Nyssa. It asserts that the unsaved will undergo hell, but that hell is remedial (neither everlasting nor purely retributive) according to key scriptures and that after purification or conversion all will enter Heaven.”
“Fourth-century Christian theologian and Bishop Diodorus of Tarsus wrote: “For the wicked there are punishments, not perpetural, however, lest the immortality prepared for them should be a disadvantage, but they are to be purified for a brief period according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness having no end awaits them…the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave sins are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be shown to them.”[12]”
The problem I have with anything, that only a few understand - is this. God is FAILING to communicate. Whether it’s Davo’s Pantelism, Theosophist Annie Besant’s Esoteric Christianity, A.E. Knoch’s No Free-Will Universalism, Mary Baker Eddy’s Christian Science, etc. Maybe one or more is true. But it eludes ALL the churches and theologians - throughout the centuries. God has a COLOSSAL failure to communicate.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ[/youtube]
Something should be SO simple, that even a child could understand it. At least, the basics. Sure, there will be differences, in the various Protestant, Catholic and Eastern Orthodox viewpoints. But the basics are there.
I try to make my message simple. The Tribulation and Zombie Apocalypse is BAD. Christ is GOOD. 
Watching the AMC show, The Walking Dead tonight - is GOOD. Watching the AMC show, Fear The Walking Dead in April - is GOOD.
Perhaps we need to get, some of Peter Popoff’s - Miracle Spring Water - to increase our understanding. 
Let me illustrate, how to make a message simple. WIth the blind man, teaching Frankenstein’s monster to smoke. Perhaps there was more than tobacco - in that cigar? 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYATXGjO2Tc[/youtube]
God is communicating quite well: “My sheep hear My voice”.
“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
Zech.7:11"But they refused to pay attention and turned a stubborn shoulder and stopped their ears from hearing. 12"They made their hearts like flint so that they could not hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets; therefore great wrath came from the LORD of hosts
Jeremiah 7:26
"Yet they did not listen to Me or incline their ear, but stiffened their neck; they did more evil than their fathers.
Matthew 16:16-17
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven
Though one is not likely to hear Him while listening to the likes of Peter Popoff, Theosophical society lectures or Zombies.
Ouch!!
OTOH, here’s a little encouragement for Randy: I was just on the back porch reading and having a cigar, the book is The Collected Works of Isaac Bashevis Singer, a delightful and rich reading experience. Anyway, in the short story ‘A Friend of Kafka’s’, one of the characters says, seated in a lamp-lit old club one night in Warsaw 1930:
“Ah, there’s Bamberg! Look at the way he waddles along on his short legs, a corpse refusing to rest in its grave. It might be a good idea to start a club for insomniac corpses!”
I could answer the question more precisely if you stated which prophecies you have in mind
Even monks and nuns, in RC and EO monasteries…take time off, to relax and have fun. 
Besides. Doing those activities helps me to better comprehend - the theological positions here. 
Either Jesus was speaking of this own people group, the Jewish people as not passing away until all these things are fulfilled, or else He was speaking of all the people who were alive at that time.
As recorded in Matt 24:34, Jesus said:
To what things was Jesus referring? According to verse 30, Jesus said:
Has there ever been a time when the people from all the nations of the earth saw Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven with power and with great glory? I don’t think so. Absolutely no one saw Him come in 70 A.D. All that observers saw at that time was the Roman armies fighting the Jewish people and destroying the holy temple. So if the “generation” to which Jesus referred, meant all the people who were alive at that time, then clearly Jesus was mistaken, since at that time, NO ONE saw Him return, coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
HFPZ said:
I would say there are those who understand and disagree, and I would say that of all the folks here on this forum, you Randy should know how GOD is working. The science and the advancement and the communication and the ability to relate to each other. Take the idea of how we have progressed, you of all people should surely understand that GOD is working and communicating… GREAT things are going on…
Please don’t respond with a zombie. I appreciate the zombies, please talk as a person…
Okay. So if you wish to disbelieve one of Jesus’ prophecies about the future, you simply find a different passage that is figurative, and with this you justify the idea that Jesus’ prophecy is also figurative.
Your implication that I have done that could be labelled as “intellectually dishonest” in view of the fact that I already showed you that the word can mean “family” or "race’ or “people group,” and referred you to a lexicon that stated the same.
Also your approach to justifying the notion that Jesus’ prophecy was figurative by referring to a figurative description from 2 Sam 22, could be considered as “intellectually dishonest.”
However, I am not going to make any accusations. They serve no positive purpose. Also I’m getting the feeling that my responses to your questions are either angering you or frustrating you or both. By continuing this discussion, it appears that neither of us is going convince the other, so what purpose would be served in doing so?
I have absolutely no animosity whatever toward you, and I wish you the very best in every aspect of your life.
Hi, Chad. God is working today. Not only in the Christian churches. But I also feel he’s reaching folks. within the context - of other faith traditions. I don’t knock anything here, where a person is actually trying to follow Christ and his two main commandments (love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself).
If that’s what you are doing, Chad…in the Christian path you are following, then I’m all for it.
But if you say everything is complete - because of Christ…Now folks can join the Hell’s Angels…partake in a swingers club…etc. Then that’s NOT the Christian path, I honor and respect.
Does this make sense to you?
Even if you argue and believe, all was accomplished in the past. We are AMBASSADORS of Christ - in the world. And we ARE the hands and feet of Christ - operating in this world.
Let me share an activity, I do each year. And I have been doing it - for years. Every year, two REAL Eastern female saints visit my area - from http://www.karunamayi.org/homepage/ and http://amma.org. I see how they live and act. I observe any charitable projects they have - which are considerable. And I receive any blessings, they have to give. When they come to my area, in the summer.
Then I go back, to my Christian faith and practice. And incorporate any lessons, i have learned from them.
Now there are only one, of two valid perspectives:
I’m off on some “new age” GOOFY stuff.
Or I’m learning from the Wisdom tradition, passed down through the centuries.
You decide. 
And if you don’t like, what they have to offer. Then take what this Christian reverend, has to offer.
HFPZ said:
Well, I think we are at different views… My view is that Christ DID collapse the bridge between God and man. God does not hold sin against man in the same way He did before he sent his son. Yes in that sense everything is complete. The fact that if YOU honor and accept it may be an opinion and if you do not honor it is … well opinion. What people choose to do is a gift from a God that has allowed free will… obviously to your consternation…
You think that Hell’s Angels and swingers are really a stumble in God’s plan… They are simply obstacles that true believers in God’s sovereign grace understand.
The victims suffering may be over in this life, God is just!
To acknowledge this then Steve you couldn’t possibly be in the Purgatorial Universalist (PU) camp of Paidion & Origen etc, where suffering ramps up a gear postmortem UNTIL one confesses Christ (an act of repentance) finally enabling them entrance into heaven… which ISN’T going to happen, according to their schema, without this purgatorial placement first. Something Paidion says even most believers will endure.
First of all I know Paidion doesn’t subscribe to God making people suffer. I would also bet the ranch God doesn’t coerce people to make them confess Christ. I think we can agree that would be a meaningless confession in fact I believe the koine greek word for “confess” is a voluntary confession.
Obviously IMO… but why do you raise this in regards to my post when I haven’t countenanced any such thing?