Yes, the link that Randy provided about gives VARIOUS uses of “γενεα.”
I have already provided the first one that Randy’s link gave concerning “γενεα” meaning “race”, but perhaps you didn’t agree that it IS one:
I asked the question whether Jesus was likely speaking to the Israelites, the people of his own race, or addressing all people that were alive at that time. The Link also provides Mark 9:19 and Luke 9:41. But they are just Mark and Luke’s account of the same words.
Here are two other verses which the link gave as examples of “γενεα” being “a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character”:
How could the children of light deal with all the people living at that time? Was it not that the children of that age were shrewd in dealing with their own people, while the children of light were not wise in dealing with theirs (the Jews)?
How could they save themselves from all the people alive at that time? They were PART of all the people who were alive. But they could save themselves from the corruption that pervaded the Jewish people of that day.
Well, the cap fits everyone of us, and so we all need to wear that cap. No one has yet ceased entirely from wrongdoing, though that is the direction in which every true Christian is moving. Salvation is a process. And our participation in that process is pleasing to God.
George MacDonald certainly would have agreed with my statement above that you quoted.
—George MacDonald, Unspoken Sermons III, Righteousness
Well, to you salvation is a process, to me it is a done deal. Thanks to Christ who did the deal. You seem to want to continue to view Christ’s death as a possible salvation, I view it as a realized salvation. Good for you, good for me, whatever be the thought. Let’s let the others view and believe for them selves.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
2Co 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
It is interesting that you continually quote GMAC and not scripture when dealing with this particular subject.
More:
2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Now the astute among you will have to ask the question, ‘so if this all happened back then (in history like you are always touting) what good is it now’? And that is a good question. In my view we start to view scripture as a historical guidepost. We are progressing but can look at Gods dealings with Israel as a building block and not as an absolute. At least not in our time here and now.
Is that what all Pantelists believe, you, davo & that link included? That salvation is a “done deal” & not a “possible salvation”, since the cross c. 30 A.D.? Then why does Scripture not say so? Moreover, why does Scripture plainly oppose such a notion:
Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
Acts 2:47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
Acts 16: 30 Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Qaz, do you think those that provided these examples of the word meaning “race” in the link Randy provided, were “using a double standard”?
I’ll answer that: no they weren’t, and neither am I doing so.
All I asked you was whom it was that Jesus was addressing—the generation of people living at the same time (not at all meaning every individual living at that time) or our Lord’s people, the Jews (not at all meaning every single Jew in the world).
I don’t understand why that question is too much for you. Is there a reason why you cannot accept our Lord’s words as being addressed to His own people group?
What Chad mentions is the big picture or the overall fullness and reach of God’s work in Christ ON BEHALF OF all… thus the complete salvation (redemption/reconciliation) of mankind on the macro level. Now within that is how individuals might further imbibe of the blessedness of this fulfilled reality which in itself ALSO works a deliverance (salvation) on the micro level… check out my link HERE.
Origen, I do not know who you are personally, but you seem to dismiss the evidence that salvation in the first century is different from the 2018 reality of what God is doing in our world. You seem to be stuck in an archaic belief system, not allowing that the very God that created us made us unique and special, and may have wanted us (here and now) to go through hard times to allow us to minister, to be servants, to be able to in our own way be as the first century Christians were, a light to the darkened people?
I’m not sure how the Preterists here, would respond to this. But to present their side (NOT becoming one, mind you)…Here is a Q and A by a Preterist at
P.S. The closest I could ever become, is a partial preterist - like New Testament, Anglican scholar N.T. Wright. Unless a Preterist can convince me, that the Zombie Apocalypse occurred around 70 AD. And why the church fathers, envisioned a future return of Christ - within the historical, orthodox creeds.
The best Q & A IMO would be the… preteristcosmos. Someone recently raised the issue of Job 19… check Q. 60 for the answer. I must note… the author Dave Green is a Calvinist, but don’t let that sway you either way. He is a staunch opponent of my inclusive preterism i.e., pantelism, but for all things prêterist it’s pretty straightforward.
Well it’s a start… though I think your zombie mates are definitely a better fit with futurism.
No, I don’t think Jews are a corrupt, perverse race. However, the question is entirely irrelevant. I have no idea how you would come to the conclusion that I do—simply on the basis that I think Jesus is talking to representatives of his own people group rather to representatives of all the people who lived at that time.
Jesus Himself (who was a Jew) addressed the Jewish scribes and Pharisees in this way:
Wow! I’ve never said anything like that to or about Jews. Did Jesus hate the scribes and Pharisees?
Oh wait. He called them a “generation” of vipers. Was He addressing representatives of Jewish people? Or was He addressing representatives of all people who were alive at that time?
If everyone was reconciled to God at the cross c.30, then why did God’s wrath come against Israel & Jerusalem c.66-70 A.D.?
What’s keeping God’s wrath - from 71 A.D. to 2018 A.D. & beyond - from being unleashed on wicked monstrous humans, both the living and the dead?
Has God’s nature changed, or His attitude toward willful stubbornness? Do the principles of His word no longer apply, such as:
Lk.6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Gal.6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8 The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap aionion life.
1 Cor.6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God
P.S. The closest I could ever become, is a partial preterist - like New Testament, Anglican scholar N.T. Wright. Unless a Preterist can convince me, that the Zombie Apocalypse occurred around 70 AD. And why the church fathers, envisioned a future return of Christ - within the historical, orthodox creeds.
I’m pretty familiar with just about every eschatology from FP,PP to Pre-trib,Post trib, Pre-Wrath. IMHO the Historicist view by Ellis Skolfield really rocks. He has a dozen mathematical time connections that to me are compelling. He is an Ammilleanalist and he thinks we are in that last short period when Satan has been released to lead the nations against the Saints. This last period ended with the close of the church age in 1967. We shall see but it certainly is a weird time that can’t go on indefinitely.
Remember that judgement starts in the house of God. To whom much is given, much is demanded.
Certainly noone on this entire forum thinks Jewish dna is any better or any worse than any other (sigh - how do you know that, Dave??? I just do ); but their responsibility under the covenant was great, as was their promised blessing.
DNA has nada to do with it.
Well show me a event that has happened post 71AD and show me a scripture that says that is the will of God.
ORIGEN SAID:
I’m not sure what you are asking?
ORIGEN SAID:
You are continually asking about things that have been explained to you, but some how you forget or willfully want to ignore the answer.
ORIGEN SAID:
You somehow have a glitch in your matrix. Paul was talking to a group of believers[size=150] there in the first Century[/size], He goes through this laundry list of crap that he is dealing with in this church and telling them that though they were once like that, get it together.
It is good reading but only applies to us in a HISTORICAL CONTEXT.
A number of reasons… Jesus prophesied it! He also, along with the apostles, gave warnings to heed his words so as to avoid this cataclysmic end that was coming.
Further… while the Temple stood ‘the law’ still stood over and against Israel and to an extent some in the early church, even though through the Cross the law was devoid of any redemptive value. That which came to symbolise the old covenant mode of existence needed removing and within a biblical generation, i.e., 40yrs, such occurred — again, as Jesus foretold…
Paul’s… “vessels of honour” and “vessels of dishonour” (Rom 9:21-22) equate to those who either in that day… perished (Jn 3:16,18, 36et al) or were preserved (Mt 24:13et al).
); but their responsibility under the covenant was great, as was their promised blessing.