The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Forgiveness...

Practices Christian Living
#1

Hey guys, fairly new here, so forgive me if this is in the wrong spot. For a while, I’ve had something weighing on me that I just can’t seem to get rid of. Some time ago, last year (before I came to really understand Christianity and God) a fella made some grossly inappropriate advances on my wife, taking advantage of a time when her and I weren’t exactly seeing eye to eye. Well, needless to say things progressed to a pretty extreme level, and I made clear to him exactly how I would exact my vengeance should I ever meet him again (rather than just doing it right then and there, which I thought was big of me at the time). Since coming to the Lord, I’ve learned a great deal about forgiveness and have let go of all the petty, stupid grudges I once held… except this one. I’ve prayed, I’ve tried to ignore it, I’ve tried everything I can think of to move beyond this, but for some reason I can’t think of this individual with anything but malice in my heart. I know it’s wrong of me, and not the way I should be living, but somehow or other, I can’t bring myself to forgive this time…

Have any of you been there? What did you do? How do I overcome this? I really feel like it’s getting in the way of me walking as strongly as I could be… ideas?

Can we love yet dislike?
#2

Hi Tim,

I have a pretty good idea of the anger you have inside you now. A little over 20 years ago, my then-wife was raped by someone we knew. She didn’t tell me for over two years, because she knew what I would have done to him. I carried that hatred around for a long time, and it almost destroyed me.

A few years back, I got some great lessons on forgiveness, and how to forgive. First off, forgiveness, in and of humans, is primarily for you, and not him. Not extending forgiveness in this issue will affect almost all of your relationships, especially the closest ones.

Second, forgiveness of this magnitude will take time and work. Tell yourself that you forgive him, everyday, maybe multiple times a day if you need to, and keep doing it. It sounds kind of silly, but it does work. Hearing your own voice saying those words sinks down into your heart and soul, and breaks down the wall to let God in to do His healing.

I wish you all the best in this. It likely won’t be quick or easy, but I know you’ll succeed.

#3

Thank you Eric, and I can’t even imagine the anger you went through. My anger seems so childish in comparison to something like that. I’ll definitely give that a try and continue praying. Thanks again brother.

#4

It’s not about levels of anger and unforgiveness compared to other people, it’s all about getting peace back into your own heart, no matter what it is we’re each having trouble forgiving.

Blessings to you and yours,

Eric

#5

Hi Tim,

Maybe this is off the wall but maybe it’ll help. Remember in the scriptures when the disciples asked Jesus how many times they had to forgive someone? The standard answer of the Pharisees was 7 times and Jesus said we must forgive 70 X 7 which I think may have been a colloquialism for “never stop forgiving”.

Perhaps Jesus was alluding to the fact that we probably shouldn’t expect to be able forgive someone at some single point in time and then have everything magically settled in our heads from then on.

Instead it seems, at least for me, that I can forgive, really forgive and find some peace, but then sometime later the thoughts creep back in and then I get all tied in knots again. So then what should I do?

Maybe Jesus’ point is that we should expect to have to keep on forgiving, even for the same thing over and over again as the thoughts continue to creep back in, until finally at some point it will become settled in our own mind.

So, don’t give up and good on you my friend and may you find peace in this.

#6

Another very valid point, and you may be right in that… forgiveness for such things as this might need some maintenance periodically… never really thought about it that way… though i haven’t EVER really forgiven the guy. I’ve forgiven so many people for things, and have all but forgotten them. This one’s just tough, which may be a deliberate test of my faith and will…

#7

Good question, I’m struggling to forgive someone at the moment (don’t worry it’s no one here) & I think the advice given above will help me too. I’ll pray that God helps you to forgive too.

#8

Forgiveness is indeed difficult. I wonder, is it unChristian to say “I might have to love them, but I don’t have to like them”?

#9

I’ve actually said that before myself in regard to some of my anti-apologist opponents.

I think it’s only unChristian if (a) not liking them leads me to not love them either; and (b) if I start thinking in terms of them always being that way.

(And © if I let not-liking-them distract me from paying attention to my own sins, which are really more important for me to be attending to.)

#10

There are many times in life when the most loving thing you can do for a person is to be away from them…

#11

Boy I’ve put that one into practice in my life before…

One thing I’ve been praying on a lot is that God will be the one handling this individual’s judgment when his day comes, and he will have to face his sin at that time. It’s not for me to judge him or punish him (much as I would’ve liked to). God will handle it, and considering that his crime is directly against one of the commandments (17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” Exodus 20:17) I truly pity him. I pray that God does forgive him, and that’s something I had openly NOT wished for at one point. I can’t really call it progress I guess, until I can come to forgive him. It’s hard to love everybody when there’s ONE person you can’t forgive. It’s frustrating.

#12

I heard a Baptist preacher years ago talking about love and putting “Love thy neighbor” into practice. He spoke of looking at “love” in terms of an emotion, and then looking at how you treat those you dearly love. When we feel that way, we do our best to know and meet the needs of whom we love. We can then put that mindset into action towards the rest of the people in the world, and let our actions shape our hearts and minds. Someone on the street might just need a smile from a stranger, a tired cashier might need some kind words, etc. The closer we are to someone, the more accurate we can be in judging their needs. And in a situation of open hostility, the kind and loving thing to do for both parties may well be to maintain some separation and distance.

We live our way into a better way of thinking, rather than think our way into a better way of living. Love and forgiveness are both active processes.

#13

I see, so to act in love in an instance like this, is simply to turn away, not act, and not INTERACT, because obviously those things would be a potentially hostile situation. Well, I don’t feel TOO bad now, considering that’s what I’ve BEEN doing. I have been quite resilient when it comes to resisting the urge to confront him further, or physically. Encouraging in a way… haha. I see my error now: I’ve been looking at acting in love in a static way, assuming that there is ONE way to do it. Now I see what you mean, love in this sense of the word is a dynamic, fluid emotion, conforming to what our neighbors need. Very nice. Thank you so much for that.

#14

For me, I think the easiest way to feel forgiving towards that man is to thrash him within an inch of his life, thrash him some more, then give myself some time to let a sense of forgiveness fall upon me. Of course, this would not be the christian way, but it would probably be the easiest.
WAAB:

Good question. Personally I have little doubt that it is as unchristian as my first idea.
Jason:

It’s a nice thought, but its a complete cop out. Real love always DOES involve like. I’ve no problem in accepting that we cannot love (or like) but we behave well towards the ‘other’ in the hopes that one day we WILL be able to love/like, but I’m dead against us kidding ourselves that we can ‘not like’ (euphemism for hate) whilst we love. Dream on.

-there’s no leading necessary. It is what it is. It’s hatred. Just as a rose by any other name doth smell as sweet, so also hatred by any other name is a stinking sin.

So I’ll love/like them when they’re perfect? Or when they become a clone of myself? I’m afraid that is not what God calls us to do. Just as He loved the unlovely whilst we were yet sinners (and not just because of what we might become), so we are called to do the same. Is He asking the impossible? In our own strength, yes, but we are told that we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.

And herein lies the rub. Not-liking them IS my own sin! Only satan himself could deceive us into thinking otherwise.Christ died for them. How dare I not like them? They may be a tarnished, marred image of their creator, but image, they still are.

The above thoughts both shock and terrify me.
As an antidote, I would like to thank Eric for posting:

Wonderful words. Thank you Eric for posting such wisdom.

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Moderator note: Pilgrim has begun another discussion with his post here, so I have split the topic. All replies to this post can now be found here: Can we love yet dislike?
Please continue the discussion there.
Thanks, Sonia*

#15

Hi Tim,

I’ve been pondering this question for several days now, trying to think how best to answer. I think we have all found it difficult to forgive at times – or can at least imagine offences which we would have a hard time forgiving.

This passage comes to mind:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Matt 5:43)

Not only are we called to forgive, we’re also called to love, pray for, and do good to our enemies. That’s more than just avoiding them. But if avoiding them is the best you can do right now, that’s ok. We have to do what we’re able to do, until we grow more in our faith and are able to do better.

You already mentioned praying for him. In my experience, that’s a very good way to begin the process of forgiveness. Praying for someone is an act of love. You can also pray that God will change your heart and teach you to see the person through His eyes, and love him like God loves him.

Sonia

#16

Yes, and I’ve been praying more for him and more for me… and I’m just trying to get over the frustration more than anything. I hate knowing i WANT to forgive but can’t. The desire of the flesh to NOT forgive, and to judge, and hate, is extremely strong, at least on this particular subject. The more I pray on it and think about it, the more facets keep coming to my attention, and it just makes me even more unsure of forgiveness. I’m overthinking it and don’t know how to stop is basically what it is. It’s been long enough since it all happened that I should be over it, and on the path to forgiveness. I think I’ve made progress in the last few days, but it’s still a very haunting situation. Thankfully our pastor was continuing on his study of Ephesians on Sunday, and there was a great deal in it on putting aside anger, malice, and on forgiveness. I’ll be studying that more in depth on my own to pull some inspiration and wisdom from it. Yet another instance where the sermon is exactly what I need to hear, haha.

#17

“31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” Ephesians 4: 31-32. These verses gave me a nice biblical slap in the face on Sunday, after this struggle with myself became so rough. I went into Church Sunday so eager, knowing God would have some kind of answer for me. Sure enough, THIS was among the topics we covered that day. And oddly enough, just READING these verses makes me feel better.