I would rather have you read though this thread and see if you (and perhaps a hypothetical Tony), can figure it out. I’m too busy now, dabbling in foreign languages. 
Okay, thanks. I likewise don’t have time to go through the thread all to be told at the end I was incorrect in trying to prove your point for you.
I forgot to give this Hypothetical Tony a background. So let me create one. This fictional character is much older, then what people would guess. And he never attended university or seminary. He just graduated from High School. But he has worked in a Christian publishing company. Would that background qualify this Hypothetical Tony, to know more then those who graduated from seminaries? Why or why not?
Not quite correct. I attended college too and kept a 4.0. I also play guitar and have a riding mower. But you are still arguing for a fallacy which is someone who had seminary training knows the truth whereas one not having had seminary training does not. We already know for the last two thousand years of theologians going through diploma mills that this can actually be a detriment to them rather than a positive. They are schooled according to the bias of their school/seminary. In other words, a Calvinist inclined seminary will teach their students in accord with their bias whereas a Catholic seminary will train their students in accord with their bias with is different than the bias of the Calvinist. These students from all these different seminaries disagree with each other. Just look at the Pharisees and Sadducees who were raised in the original language and knew their Scriptures inside and out. Yet the unschooled disciples knew more than they when it came to the truth. And the Pharisees and Sadducees disagreed with each other.
So, rather than attacking the messenger, why don’t you stick with the issues?
Are we declared righteous just be believing God or by doing works? We are declared righteous just as Abraham was who only believed God. 
Hum. That’s interesting. You’re the same as my hypothetical example 
Will wonders never cease 
Anyway, sorry. No time. Perhaps someone would like to continue this dialogue - in my place 
Just a term clarification. A **diploma mill **is usually referred to someone who has a degree, from an unaccredited university. Or one that’s accredited, by an unrecognized agency. So a legitimate degree in the US, is one that is usually accredited, by one of the six regional accreditation agencies. And these agencies are recognized, by the US Department of Education.
It works differently in other countries. So members in England, Australia and Canada - can give input. But in South Africa, UNISA (i.e. University of South Africa), is the largest university. And it’s recognized by the South African government.
That’s how standards are insured.
Anyway, back to my regularly scheduled activities. 
And still you can’t stick with the issue.
I’m looking for a substitute, while I’m busy elsewhere
But I did share a response I liked earlier, at God’s righteousness
And the “Calvinism in Disguise” responses, were shared earlier here - by me, from Got Questions. 
Abraham did not do any act to make himself righteous. It was only when he believed God that God reckoned him righteous:
"For if Abraham was justified by acts, he has something to boast in, but not toward God.
For what is the scripture saying? Now “Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness.” (Rom 4:2-3)
See that? Abraham was not justified by acts. If he was, then he has something to boast in. There were no “steps” he had to ascend to become righteous.
Faith is obviously not an act for if it was, Abraham could boast that he did something to merit something else. The faith given to Abraham was a gift from God. Faith is not a part of law works.
Righteousness was reckoned into or for him. And at the end of Romans 4 Paul used Abraham as an example for us and says:
Rom 5:1 Being, then, justified by faith, we may be having peace toward God, through our Lord, Jesus Christ,
Yes, we are justified by faith. “Justified” and “righteous” use the same Greek word. We are righteousified by faith just as Abraham was.
This should be liberating! It should bring peace and joy! It is the end of trying to appease God. It is the end of trying to do this or that to save yourself. It is the end of worry that you might not be good enough. Believe me when I say I’ve gone through enough churches to know this.
I went to the link you shared. Some of it I agree with and some I don’t.
Some of this I do not is:
“To the Greek Fathers, what we inherit from Adam is not his sin and consequent guilt, but mortality.4 From Adam (understood, really, as an archetype), we “inherit” the sting of death. Death has spread to all of humanity, as an inevitable consequence of our fallen nature; yet each of us, under the threat of death, rebels personally against God, the Author of Life. This means that our guilt is our own; we bring it upon ourselves. (A sign in our local marina declares: “You are responsible for your wake!” How true…)”
Paul, the apostle would disagree with some of the above. We who are from Adam are not responsible for death entering into us. The whole point of Paul’s argument in Romans 5 is that there are two men and just one act done by Adam and Christ which affects all mankind.
Adam sinned and in so doing death passed through into all mankind. I agree with the above quote that we did not inherit sin but mortality. But they err when they say we are responsible that our guilt is our own. No, Paul said due to Adam’s one act all are made sinners in 5:18,19. We are neutral recipients to what Adam and Christ did. Due to death passing through into all mankind, all sin (according to Romans 5:12).
How are all mankind to be made righteous? Look at Romans 5:18,19. It is through Christ’s just act that all will be made righteous and have their lives justified. Just as they do nothing to merit mortality, thus also they do nothing to merit salvation. That is Paul’s whole point. Can I get an Amen?
Tough crowd
This very passage that you quoted supports the truth of salvation as a process. It doesn’t say, “through which also you have been saved” but “through which also you are being saved.” The verb is a present passive indicative, indicating an ongoing process.
It is correctly translated as “you are being saved” by the ESV, Diaglot, Rotherham, RSV, YLT, CLV, and I don’t know how many others to which I do not have immediate access.
That is true. Very few see that Paidion. In fact, I suggest it means “being saved from falling into harmful things in this life as long as you are retaining what I said . . . .” in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
However, some do know that the ones who believe were chosen to be believing and that when they believe they are sealed with the spirit of promise for the day of deliverance (see Eph.4:30).
Please notice the verses below where it is stated that salvation is not due to what we do:
“For in grace,** through faith, are you saved**, and this is not out of you; it is God’s approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.” (Eph 2:8,9)
"Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian, (2Ti 1:9)
"not for works which are wrought in righteousness which we do,** but according to His mercy, He saves us**, through the bath of renascence and renewal of holy spirit, (Titus 3:5).
Notice also, Paidion this: “Rom 4:5 Yet** to him who is not working**, yet is believing on Him Who is justifying the irreverent, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.”
So one who merely believes God, the One Who is justifying the irreverent, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. Righteousness is not reckoned to us who work for salvation. Now I realize you have stated “eis” (lit. “into”) in “for righteosness” can mean “toward righteousness.” But that doesn’t work with Paul’s thesis in Romans 4 and 5. “God’s righteousness is for all and on all who are believing.” We know God’s righteousness is not merely something coming toward us who believe but is actually ours. We are IN Christ. He is righteous. Therefore God sees us righteous as He sees Christ as righteous.
Exactly! That is precisely what salvation is. I will add, not only being saved from doing harmful things, but being saved to righteousness, that is doing helpful things. We are being saved from SIN.
The angel announced to Joseph, "You will call his name “Jesus” (Salvation), for He will save his people from their sins—not from the result of their sins, but from their SINS. Being saved from the result of our sin naturally follows—whether in this life (developing lung cancer from smoking, contracting AIDS from sexual promiscuity, etc.), or in the next life (not requiring severe correction).
Those who think Jesus’ death was all about appeasing a severe Father on our behalf, usually presume that those who take my position are trying to work their way to heaven. That is not our position at all. We understand the death of Christ as being effective in providing the enabling grace of God that helps us to overcome wrongdoing. Though some refrain from doing wrong by sheer self-effort, they are not consistent in this endeavor. By coöperating with God (“working together with Him 2 Cor 6:1”) we can be consistently righteous. If we try to receive the grace of God in any other way, it is in vain.
For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you. (Titus 2:11-15)
Sorry Eusebius, I wrote a lot more but when I posted only the above appeared. I’ll try to reconstruct the rest and post it later.
Seals can be broken.
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? (Heb 10:26-29)
Do you know anyone who thinks that salvation results from what we do? I have never met a person who holds that position. If you know anyone who does, I would like to hear it from his own lips (or from his own computer, if he has posted it on a forum). Indeed, the only reason I am even aware of salvation being a result of what we do, is that I keep receiving it from people who hold your position, who THINK we hold to salvation by works, we who hold the position that we are being saved from SIN itself, not merely from the results of sin. Yes, IF we repent (have a change of heart and mind) and “work together with Him”—coöperate with enabling grace— salvation from severe post-mortem correction follows. By quoting the verses you quoted above, you are “preaching to the choir.”
No, one doesn’t get counted righteous when he’s not, merely because of “believing on Him.” That is not what Paul is saying at all. First of all “justification” does not mean “just as if I’d never sinned” as those who hold your view affirm. “Justification” has the same Greek root as “righteousness.” It doesn’t mean "counted righteous; it means “made righteous.”
Paul said many times that it is not by works of the Mosaic law that one becomes righteous. Rather it is through the enablement and training made possible by God’s enabling grace. And that enabling grace was made possible by Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross.
For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you. (Titus 2:11-15)
Notice the grace of God that appeared for the salvation of all people, TRAINS us to live righteous and devout lives in this present age. Notice also that Christ gave his life on the cross “to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works.” He died to deliver us from sin through this enabling grace. But unless we coöperate with God who provides this grace, we will not be delivered. We must “work together with him” (2 Cor 6:1) or any attempt to receive God’s grace will be in vain.
It works perfectly. Salvation is a life-long process, and it won’t be completed until Christ’s return:
Philippians 1:6 …I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
No, but WE are coming toward God’s righteousness as we continue to trust in Christ who delivers us from wrongdoing and brings us into righteousness (with our trust and coöperation, of course).
NOPE! God has no interest in “positional righteousness” which is not righteousness at all! At best it is a pretending righteousness.
God is interested only in actual righteousness—and that is his will for us, that we actually become righteous!
I guess you never really got what I was driving at in my last post.
There is the locative position of “in Christ” and the instrumental “in Christ.” Paul wrote a lot about it. It’s important. God sees believers in Christ locatively.
Rom_3:24 Being justified gratuitously in His grace, through the deliverance which is in Christ Jesus"
Rom_6:11 Thus you also, be reckoning yourselves to be dead, indeed, to Sin, yet living to God in Christ Jesus, our Lord."
Rom_6:23 For the ration of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord."
Rom_8:1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit,
Rom_8:2 for the spirit’s law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.
Rom_8:35 What shall be separating us from the love of God in Christ Jesus? Affliction, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Rom_8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord."
Rom_9:1 The truth am I telling in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifying together with me in holy spirit,
Rom_12:5 thus we, who are many, are one body in Christ, yet individually members of one another."
Rom_15:17 I have, then, a boast in Christ Jesus, in that which is toward God."
Rom_16:3 Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus"
Rom_16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives and my fellow captives who are notable among the apostles, who also came to be in Christ before me."
Rom_16:9 Greet Urbanus, our fellow worker in Christ, and Stachys, my beloved."
Rom_16:10 Greet Apelles, attested in Christ. Greet those who are of Aristobulus."
1Co_1:2 to the ecclesia of God which is in Corinth, hallowed in Christ Jesus, called saints, together with all in every place who are invoking the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours:"
1Co_1:4 I am thanking my God always concerning you over the grace of God which is being given you in Christ Jesus,
1Co_1:30 Yet you, of Him, are in Christ Jesus, Who became to us wisdom from God, besides righteousness and holiness and deliverance,
1Co_3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual, but as to fleshy, as to minors in Christ."
1Co_4:10 We are stupid because of Christ, yet you are prudent in Christ. We are weak, yet you are strong. You are glorious, yet we are dishonored."
1Co_4:15 For if you should be having ten thousand escorts in Christ, nevertheless not many fathers, for in Christ Jesus, through the evangel, I beget you."
1Co_4:17 Therefore I send to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, who will be reminding you of my ways which are in Christ Jesus, according as I am teaching everywhere in every ecclesia."
1Co_15:18 Consequently those also, who are put to repose in Christ, perished."
1Co_15:19 If we are having an expectation in Christ in this life only, more forlorn than all men are we."
1Co_15:22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified."
1Co_15:31 Daily am I dying. By this boast of yours, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus, our Lord,
1Co_16:24 My love be with all of you in Christ Jesus! Amen!
2Co_1:21 Now He Who is confirming us together with you in Christ, and anoints us, is God,
2Co_2:14 Now thanks be to God, Who always gives us a triumph in Christ, and is manifesting the odor of His knowledge through us in every place,
2Co_2:17 For we are not as the majority, who are peddling the word of God, but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God in Christ, are we speaking."
2Co_3:15 for only in Christ is it being nullified. But till today, if ever the reading of Moses should be reached, a covering is lying on their heart."
2Co_5:17 So that, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive passed by. Lo! there has come new!"
2Co_5:19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation."
2Co_11:3 Yet I fear lest somehow, as the serpent deludes Eve by its craftiness, your apprehensions should be corrupted from the singleness and pureness which is in Christ. "
2Co_12:2 I am acquainted with a man in Christ, fourteen years before this, (whether in a body I am not aware, or outside of the body, I am not aware - God is aware) such a one was snatched away to the third heaven. "
2Co_12:19 Again, you are presuming that we are defending ourselves to you. Facing God, in Christ, are we speaking, yet all, beloved, for the sake of your edification. "
Gal_1:22 Yet I was unknown by face to the ecclesias of Judea which are in Christ.
Gal_2:4 Yet, it was because of the false brethren who were smuggled in, who came in by the way to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they shall be enslaving us- "
Gal_2:16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."
Gal_2:17 Now if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, is Christ, consequently, a dispenser of sin? May it not be coming to that!"
Gal_3:14 that the blessing of Abraham may be coming to the nations in Christ Jesus, that we may be obtaining the promise of the spirit through faith."
Gal_3:26 for you are all sons of God, through faith in Christ Jesus."
Gal_3:28 in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus."
Gal_5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision is availing anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith, operating through love."
Gal_6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation."
Eph_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to all the saints who are also believers in Christ Jesus:"
Eph_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ,
Eph_2:5 (we also being dead to the offenses and the lusts), vivifies us together in Christ (in grace are you saved!)"
Eph_2:6 and rouses us together and seats us together among the celestials, in Christ Jesus,
Eph_2:7 that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus."
Eph_2:10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them."
Eph_2:13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."
Eph_3:6 the nations are to be joint enjoyers of an allotment, and a joint body, and joint partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus, through the evangel"
Eph_3:11 in accord with the purpose of the eons, which He makes in Christ Jesus, our Lord;"
Eph_3:21 to Him be the glory in the ecclesia and in Christ Jesus for all the generations of the eon of the eons! Amen!
Eph_4:32 yet become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, dealing graciously among yourselves, according as God also, in Christ, deals graciously with you."
Php_1:1 Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, together with the supervisors and servants:"
Php_1:13 so that my bonds in Christ become apparent in the whole pretorium and to all the rest,
Php_1:26 that your glorying may be superabounding in Christ Jesus in me through my presence with you again.
Php_2:1 If, then, there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any communion of spirit, if any compassion and pity,
Php_2:5 For let this disposition be in you, which is in Christ Jesus also,
Php_3:3 for we are the circumcision who are offering divine service in the spirit of God, and are glorying in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in flesh."
Php_3:14 toward the goal am I pursuing for the prize of God’s calling above in Christ Jesus.
Php_4:7 and the peace of God, that is superior to every frame of mind, shall be garrisoning your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus."
Php_4:19 Now my God shall be filling your every need in accord with His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
Php_4:21 Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. Greeting you are the brethren with me.
Col_1:2 to the saints and believing brethren in Christ in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God, our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Col_1:4 on hearing of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints,
Col_2:5 For even if, in flesh, I am absent, nevertheless, in spirit, I am with you, rejoicing and observing your order and the stability of your faith in Christ."
1Th_2:14 For you became imitators, brethren, of the ecclesias of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you suffered the same, even you by your own fellow tribesmen, according as they also by the Jews,
1Th_4:16 for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first,
1Th_5:18 In everything be giving thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. "
1Ti_1:14 Yet the grace of our Lord overwhelms, with faith and love in Christ Jesus."
1Ti_3:13 for those who serve ideally are procuring for themselves an ideal rank and much boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti_1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus, through the will of God, in accord with the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2Ti_1:9 Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts, but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian,
2Ti_1:13 Have a pattern of sound words, which you hear from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus."
2Ti_2:1 You, then, child of mine, be invigorated by the grace which is in Christ Jesus."
2Ti_2:10 Therefore I am enduring all because of those who are chosen, that they also may be happening upon the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with glory eonian."
2Ti_3:12 And all who are wanting to live devoutly in Christ Jesus shall be persecuted.
2Ti_3:15 and that from a babe you are acquainted with the sacred scriptures which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Phm_1:8 Wherefore, having much boldness in Christ to be enjoining you as to what is proper,
Phm_1:20 Yea, brother, may I be “profiting from you in the Lord! Soothe my compassions in Christ!”
Phm_1:23 Greeting you are Epaphras, my fellow captive in Christ Jesus,
For the benefit of everyone on this forum, what Bible version (i.e. NIV, NASB, ESV, NLT, KJV, NKJV, etc.), are you quoting from? Just curious 
As an aside…
the doctrine of the redeemed ‘in Christ’ as well as ‘Christ in’ the redeemed is illustrated metaphorically in human sexual expression since we are made in the image of God. I only mention it as further defense of the beauty of the doctrine that the redeemed in Christ are considered 100% righteous in God the Father sight, even though we still sin. We are legally and positionally fully acquitted and justified in God’s eyes now. I know we have been sparing about this point for weeks now, but I thought I throw in the sexual metaphor, if would help any objectors to reconsider.
For more details on this dimension check out my article here, dgjc.org/dgjc/in-doctrine.
Look, either Christ has done it all or he has not… Big question, life long search.