The doctrine of the Trinity is not something in the Scriptures for anyone to believe and therefore no one is beholden to have to believe it. It was merely manufactured to keep out the Arians. It is only political.
I don’t care how many councils focused on the Trinity. It is merely political B.S. It is not of faith and was only used to keep the Arians from regaining power in the church. I suggest you focus on the evangel of Paul to the nations rather than make-believe stuff.
So you don’t believe Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures?
Maybe I’m **not **reading Paidion properly. Did he explicitly say or imply, he doesn’t belief what you quoted? Your quoted sentence below, is part of the histoical Christian creeds, most churches adopt today.
There is absolutely nothing in LLC’s words that should precipitate such a question! I think she believes it far more accurately than you. You simply think He died to get everyone off the hook, but she believes that He died to deliver us from our sin (and he delivers us from sin through the enabling grace provided by His death and resurrection). Of course, we must agree to be delivered and coöperate with that grace. Being delivered from sin is the benefit of Christ’s death and resurrection that is consistently presented by the writers of the New Testament throughout.
If you don’t believe in the trinity (i.e. “make believe stuff”, like unicorns and the tooth fairy) - like some here don’t, then:
What is “heavenly father”, “Holy Spirit” , “Christ” and “Son”?
Are they all the same?
And if not, which aspect - if any - refers to God?
What is the relationship between these words, ideas or concepts?
If one deviates from a normally held belief, then they should explain what they believe 
or
Okay, I for one will do so:
Consider the words of Jesus:
If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.” (John 14:23) HOW will the Father and the Son make their dwelling with those who love Jesus and who keep His word? My answer was “by means of their Holy Spirit.” The Father and the Son are so united into One ("He who has seen me has seen the Father), that they share the same Spirit. They can extend their Persons or “Spirit” anywhere in the universe, especially into the hearts of the faithful.
I suggest that the Holy Spirit if not a third divine person, but yet is personal—the very persons of the Father and the Son. Consider the following scripture, where Paul refers to Jesus as “The Lord” and then states that He IS the Spirit:
But their minds [those of the Jews] were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:14-18)
The second-century Christian writer, Justin Martyr affirmed in his “Apology ch. 33” (written to the Emperor Titu Ælius Adrianus Antoninun Pius Augustus Cæsar) that the Spirit is none other than the Logos (the Son of God) Himself:
*It is wrong, therefore to understand the Spirit and the Power of God as anything else but the Logos, who is also the first-born of God…
That the prophets are inspired by no other than the divine Word, even you, as I fancy, will grant.*
Why do you suppose Jesus said,* “but I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the advocate [or ‘encourager’ or ‘comforter’ or ‘helper’, that is, the Holy Spirit] will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him [or ‘it’] to you.” (John 16:7)*
If the Spirit were a third divine Person, then why did Jesus have to go away before He could come? Could the reason be that Jesus Himself was the Spirit, but as long as He was living in a human body, His Spirit was confined to that body. But after God raised Him from the dead, He had a spiritual body that could go through closed doors (John 20:19). It was the same body, but a changed body. He still had the wounds which He received when He was crucified, but He now had “put on immortality”(1 Cor 15). Now his Spirit or divine Person could be extended anywhere in the universe. So He and his Father could make their dwelling with their disciples, by extending their Persons into the hearts of the children of God. Indeed it is written that the last Adam (Jesus) “became [the] life-giving Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:45)
It is interesting that Justin Martyr in his dialogue with Trypho both spoke of the Spirit of God. Clearly Trypho wasn’t thinking of another Person besides God, since he was Jewish, probably a Pharisee. And it becomes clear that Justin didn’t either. Justin had been trying to show Trypho from Hebrew prophecies that Jesus was the Son of God, and could therefore be called “God” in the sense that He was divine and begotten by God. At one point Justin asked Trypho this very interesting question:
*Do you think that any other one is said to be worthy of worship and called “Lord” and “God” in the Scriptures, besides the Maker of all, and Christ [Messiah] , who by so many Scriptures was proved to you to have become man?
Trypho replied, “How can we admit this, when we have instituted so great an inquiry as to whether there is any other than the Father alone?” (Dialogue Ch 58)*
If Justin had been a Trinitarian, this would have been the perfect moment to have introduced the Holy Spirit as a third divine Person who was worthy of worship and who could be called “God”. But instead he said:
I must ask you this also, that I may know whether or not you are of a different opinion from that which you admitted some time ago.
It seems that Trypho had been changing his opinions quite often during their dialogue, and that was the reason Justin had asked the question.
It is also the case that the Trinity is nowhere found in the Bible except in 1 John 5:7 of the King James Bible and related translations.
1 John 5:7 is known as “the Johannine Comma”. It doesn’t occur in any Greek manuscript prior to the ninth century. Here you can find some more information about the passage and how it got into 1 John:
bible-researcher.com/comma.htm
So I hope you understand why I am not a Trinitarian. The Trinitarian view of God was almost unknown prior to the fourth century, but during which it was taught by people such as Jerome and Augustine, and thus it spread throughout all Christendom.
In conclusion, I came to believe that the Holy Spirit is not a third divine Individual, but yet is personal. The Spirit is the very Persons of the Father and the Son. Perhaps it is for this reason that there is no record in the New Testament of any Christian praying to the Holy Spirit.
See if you can answer me this:
Jesus said He is God’s Son.
The Scriptures said He was begotten by holy spirit.
Did Jesus have two fathers?
Eusebius’ reply: Of course there is or I wouldn’t have brought it up.
She wrote “Christ died in order to bring us the truth of God.” That is false.
She also said in so many words that God causes evil is wrong. The Bible says differently. Sin is not the cause of evil. That’s what Job’s friends said and God said they were wrong. Don’t you folks ever read your bibles or do you just like snagging a verse here and there out of context to hopefully try to make your case?
The Bible says “Christ came into the world to save sinners.” Romans 5:18,19 reveal that humanity is absolutely neutral in what they get from Adam and Christ. Sorry you don’t believe that. But how could you? You don’t even believe the most basic tenet of the Scriptures which proves a person to be a Christian and that is to believe Christ died for our sins. You believe that wasn’t enough, that you have to do something to save yourself. Pity. But your belief doesn’t save a gnat.
So typical of unbelievers.
Randy said:
But the operative word here is ‘a’ verses ‘the’… in other words you are suggesting there may be more than one normally held belief. And thus is the controversy. 
BTW, I like your position statement Paidion. Don’t agree with it but I am convinced you believe it.
That is good enough for me.
A historical clarification, if I may:
St. Athanasios of Alexandria (A. D. 297-373) is honored in the Orthodox Church as “the Father of Orthodoxy”. To him more than to any single individual we owe the defense of the deity of the Son.
St. Basil the Greek (A. D. 330–379), St. Gregory the Theologian (A. D. 329-389) and St. Gregory of Nyssa (A. D. 332–395), who are collectively referred to as “the Cappadocian Fathers”, were the three main defenders of the deity of the Holy Spirit and of the dogma of the Trinity. I find St. Basil’s On the Holy Spirit particularly convincing regarding the full personhood and deity of the Holy Spirit.
The technical Greek terminology used to carefully define the dogma of the Trinity was fully and finally adopted at the Second Ecumenical Council in New Rome in A. D. 381, presided over by St. Gregory of Nyssa.
Only five years later in A. D. 386 did Augustine of Hippo renounce paganism and become a Christian. St. Jerome, who became serious about being a Christian circa A. D. 373, traveled to New Rome to study under St. Gregory the Theologian around the time of the Second Ecumenical Council.
Augustine and St. Jerome certainly promulgated the dogma of the Trinity in the western Empire later in their lives, but they did not play any role in the pre-381 defense of the dogma of the Holy Trinity, nor in the development of the terminology used to define the dogma.
There’s nothing to answer. It’s nonsense. The first two lines no more precipitate such a question than LLC’s
words precipitate your question to her, “So you don’t believe Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures?”
TOTALLY UNRELATED!
Unless of course, you hold to the position that the Holy Spirit is a different Individual from the Father—and that is not the case.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. If the Spirit were a third divine Person, then there ought to be at least one instance in the Bible where someone prayed to “Him.”
laugh… hello kettle this is pot. 
Did you ever read the book, “How to win friends and influence people”? It might do you good.
I’m still waiting for her to answer me. You see Paidion, if one believes the Trinity is comprised of three persons, then they need to tell me the answer to my question above.
Paidion wrote:
Then there is no Trinity. That is my point.
I didn’t know that book was scripture. Obviously Jesus never read it or Paul. Jesus got pretty nasty with people, kicking over tables and whipping people with chords from the Temple. And Paul confronted people like Peter calling him a hypocrite. Now exercise those fingers and open your bibles and get to studying and start believing God that He sent His Son into the world to save sinners and God sacrificed His Son. Start believing that God is our Saviour. We aren’t our saviour. God is not a Co-op Saviour.
This statement is not necessarily true and cannot be used as proof against the person-hood of the Holy Spirit.
Once, I was exploring the phenomena of Kundalini (an Eastern energy tradition, that Roman Catholic clergy - have also investigated). And the related tradition of Shaktipat (where the kundalini energy is activated, by someone with that ability). But I was wondering if Shaktipat, was the same as the Holy Spirit. Then during the night, I was awakened by a loud voice. It asked, “Is Shaktipat the same, as the Holy Spirit?” And I had to answer no. And I knew then the Holy Spirit was a person or personality - not a force. Although we can experience it as a force.
Now some here might say, I had a dream. Or it was my imagination. But I have spent enough years, in the Native American community… to know the difference between ordinary and prophetic dreams… along with the difference - between imagination and visions.
Interpret this however you wish to
I believe in the person-hood of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the persons of the Father and the Son (or can be the person of either of Them singly).
What I argue against is that the Spirit is a different person from either the Father or the Son.
God is never said to be a “person” in the Bible. He is said to be spirit.