Thx for the tip!
When the Bible speaks of death, I think the authors are talking about different kinds of death. It is quite obvious that death is a natural part of life. To say that this occurs because man sinned or because of some cosmic rebel seems unrealistic. A tropical storm that blows in and wipes out a community, for example, is an act of God to me. This would not be due to sin or Satan. Yes, sin does cause death, but man did not make this Law, God did. So I suppose it depends one how one sees as to whether or not God is the destroyer. In the case of the Civil War and slavery, was it God speaking, or was it Satan/man? That being said, I do believe that all evil comes from the heart of man.
hen the Bible speaks of death, I think the authors are talking about different kinds of death. It is quite obvious that death is a natural part of life. To say that this occurs because man sinned or because of some cosmic rebel seems unrealistic.
The bible specifically says Satan has the power of death and his name means “Adversary” and i believe he is called the Angel of Death and the Destroyer elsewhere in scripture. So he is part of the mix, but the question is to what degree?
Steve, In reading the article that Hermano posted, I get the impression that the author believes there is a battle going on between God and some satanic cosmic warlord out in outer space. I don’t believe natural occurrences such as a forest fire started by a lightening strike, floods, hurricanes, tornados etc. etc. are acts of a cosmic rebel. Nor would I say that these things happen because man sins. To me, Satan is basically the evil workings of the hearts and minds of men.
I don’t think any mainline Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Protestant Churches…or any Christian, academic professor of theology, philosophy or some branch of science…would agree that "natural occurrences such as a forest fire started by a lightening strike, floods, hurricanes, tornado etc. etc. are acts of a cosmic rebel. " And if they do, they are in the minority.
How about the Church Fathers? We must remind ourselves that we do not live in a spiritual vacuum. (As to that “satanic cosmic warlord,” his activities can only be discerned and confronted by people who recognize that the demonic powers are real people, and that they were defeated at the cross.)
Here is a related article by author, theologian, and criminal defense attorney Richard Murray that he sent me via email:
Blessings.
PS We need to wake up and become more proactive against these “imaginary” enemies, instead of passively allowing ourselves to be victimized and defrauded by them, and blaming it on…bad luck? …bad government? …bad military? …bad economy? …bad genetics? …our loving heavenly Father?
Hermano. If the readings of the church fathers support your thesis, then why hasn’t the Eastern Orthodox Church - adapted that viewpoint? I’m talking about the statement, that he is the direct author - of natural disasters. I need to read your quotes later, and see if they apply to that. And I would need to see the full context, of your quoted statements. The Eastern Orthodox churches rely heavily, upon the church fathers - among with Holy Tradition and Sacred Scripture.
Herman, I agree with 75% of what you/ Murray are saying - I just haven’t had time yet to really think about the other 25%. Murray is onto something that has been neglected for a long time - whether I go all the way with him I don’t know. But he has added to my understanding.
On this (and other) forums you could state that :
If A>B and B>C, then A>C
…and you would still get argued till the end of time. “Can you prove that A>C? Why do you think logic is so infallable? Where does it say in the bible that A>C? If God did not want A>C then it would not be!! Was there any ECF that explicity said A>C?? Why do you rely on the natural mind so much? God told me that A<C, why should I listen to sinful man otherwise?”
Just the nature of forums, I reckon!
I have to admit, I tried the bracket thing as the article suggested, and it didn’t seem to work for me. Maybe it’s just me. 
For example Genesis 19:13 says this: “For we will destroy this place (Sodom and Gomorrah), because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the Lord[Satan], and the Lord [Satan] has sent us to destroy it.” Again, Genesis 19:24 says “Then the Lord [Satan] rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord [Satan] out of heaven.” Now, a couple of questions come to mind. If God does not allow evil as the OP suggests, then why is He allowing a cosmic rebel to hijack the heavens and rain fire and brimstone down on people? Secondly, the article also mentions that Satan caused the flood in the story of Noah. Why is Satan offing all the evil people? Doesn’t he need armies to take over and rule the world? This makes no sense to me.
Yeah, that’s part of the 25% I’m struggling with…
What is Satan’s goal or endgame, and why? Does anyone know? Do we need to know?
I suspect it is to insult God as much as he can, while he can. I suspect it is kill! kill! kill! (along with steal! and destroy!).
He is an intelligent strategist. After all, he did almost take out “the whole shootin’ match” with the Flood of Noah. (And nowadays, mankind has terrible weapons of mass destruction–which apparently includes North Korea, and probably Iran.)
But he is a defeated enemy, and we need to learn to recognize him and effectively oppose him with weapons that are not carnal, “but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds.” 2 Cor. 10:4.
*
“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are his. He changes times and seasons; he deposes kings and raises up others. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in darkness, and light dwells with him. I thank and praise you, God of my ancestors….”* Daniel 2.
and
*
“This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it.”* Ps. 118:24.
Blessings.
" Now, a couple of questions come to mind. If God does not allow evil as the OP suggests, then why is He allowing a cosmic rebel to hijack the heavens and rain fire and brimstone down on people? Secondly, the article also mentions that Satan caused the flood in the story of Noah. Why is Satan offing all the evil people? Doesn’t he need armies to take over and rule the world? This makes no sense to me.
According to “Don’t Blame God” Satan got the legal right to have dominion of the earth from Adam and then even offered it to Jesus. God doesn’t interfere with Satan because Satan legally obtained the right to rule and God’s righteousness won’t let him interfere.
Re Noah, this is my thought. Perhaps Satan lied and the people weren’t actually all evil. In fact it does seem strange that God would wipe out almost everyone because of their evilness yet the replacements became just about as evil over time. As far as Satan’s army goes, he has an army of demons.
Of course i still have the traditional belief although i’m open to learn more, but for this i was playing devil’s advocate! 
Here is a relevant excerpt of a comment from another thread:
Jesus is holding that title deed, and he will most certainly, at his convenience, take possession of the land.
Regarding eschatology, I am still a futurist, and believe in a literal antichrist, and a literal Tribulation.
And yet as to the nature of God, I believe Him nonviolent, and only loving. How do I reconcile the two?
Well, when I now read the book of Revelation, I remember what Richard Murray terms “The Strobe Light Effect”:
I also remember from Murray’s “IS SATAN INVOLVED IN EVERY EVIL OCCURRENCE?” (quoted in its entirety earlier in this thread) how he defended his viewpoint that, for example, “natural disasters” don’t have to be natural. One of the several Church Fathers he cited was Origen:
Today, I was reading in the book of Revelation a description of the seventh plague. It says,
“And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.” Rev. 16:21.
So, who exactly is sending those hail stones in the seventh plague? Men will continue to lose divine protection through willful sin, and the enemy will happily enter through the holes in that hedge. So when I read this passage, I see that God will be blamed and blasphemed, when in reality it is satanic forces afflicting people during those terrible times.
In seeing that the Bible is part of a progressive revelation, I know now that God doesn’t threaten and kill, He warns and rescues. He is not an arsonist, but a heroic fireman. As Murray also says in God vs. Evil,
And here is a final exhortation for all of us from that same Murray essay included in my earlier comment:
Blessings.
Steve, I would say that a thief and murderer has no such rights. I’m still confused. Who’s side is Satan on? He seems to be killing everyone no matter whether they’re evil or righteous. God said, if you sin, you die. Satan lied and said that this isn’t true. However, he goes on to prove God correct when he kills off all the evil people. I wouldn’t consider this to be very intelligent. You’d think that only the righteous would be targeted.
You’d think that only the righteous would be targeted.
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Satan’s main weapon is deception and if he attacked only the righteous that would expose him. Scripture does portray him as “The father of lies” and “a murderer from the beginning” and “the god of this age” and “a roaring lion walking around looking for whom to devour” and also as having “the power of death.”
So it is hard to figure why Satan is barely mentioned in the OT , yet there are plenty of deaths and killings! But the way God is described in the NT is hard to reconcile with his occasional actions in the OT.
The picture I am getting here, is that Satan is this big, bad cosmic chap. And Christians have no power over him. I believe just the opposite. Though invoking the name of Christ, along with the help of the Holy Spirit, the Saints (yes, I side with the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches on this), and the Holy Angels, you can reduce his power over you. Make it nothing, so to speak. It’s doing on a miniature scale, what they do in the Roman Catholic exorcisms - for demon possessed people (after eliminating organic disease and abnormal psychosis). I think the Pentecostals, Charismatics, and folks from the RC and EO churches, would side with me.
Let me share a prayer, from the contemporary, Old Catholic Church mystic, Tiffany Snow:
Of course, I wouldn’t touch him, with a 10 foot pole. But many folks, try to make him a friend. 
The picture I am getting here, is that Satan is this big, bad cosmic chap. And Christians have no power over him. I believe just the opposite.
Yes i agree with you but in the OT folks had no power and no knowledge of Satan, so a possibility is (just a theory) if someone was possessed by demons they had to be destroyed?
Neither does the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox nor mainline Protestant churches. Nor do academic Christian professors of theology, philosophy and science.
The Roman Catholic church, believes that God still has a covenant with Judaism. I feel the same way, for Native American spirituality. Their teachings date back thousands of years. And a Lutheran minister, penned the biography, of one of their holy people (i.e. saint) - Fools Crow. Now Fools Crow (like Black Elk), practiced both Native American spirituality and Roman Catholicism. And they feel that we are the ones, who get nature out of balance. In other words, nature is reacting to our behavior and trying to cleanse itself. This comes from thousands of years, of handed down tradition. And the modern scientific equivalent, is called Chaos Theory.
And if Satan were responsible for natural disasters, he’s working within the parameters of science. Where our science, normally has early warning systems in place - for many natural disasters.
It’s a broken world, folks - pure and simple. And didn’t Satan have to get God’s permission, in the book of Job?
You know, upon reading Postmortem Opportunist , I feel universalism is an established position. As the author points out, approximately 1/3 of the church fathers believe in ECT, 1/3 in annihilation and 1/3 in Universalism.
But some ideas, presented in this forum (i.e. we have no free will and God is pulling the strings, Satan causes all natural disasters, etc.)…Is like being out in left field, with a baseball bat. 
It’s a broken world, folks - pure and simple. And didn’t Satan have to get God’s permission, in the book of Job?
If you take it literally yes but the authors of “Don’t Blame God” take it as an allegory.
One question we should ask - is this another example of an O.T. story that could be used - illegitimately imo - to obscure NT clarity?
I do think this is a good place to call in the Jesus Hermeneutic that Murray recommends.