The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Hell Under Fire: Modern Scholarship Reinvents Eternal Punish

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#1

HellUnderFireSample.pdf (179 KB)

I guess at least he read TEU first…

"]Of all the teachings of Christianity, the doctrine of hell is easily the most troubling, so much so that in recent years the church has been quietly tucking it away. Rarely mentioned anymore in the pulpit, it has faded through disuse among evangelicals and been attacked by liberal theologians. Hell is no longer only the target of those outside the church. Today, a disturbing number of professing Christians question it as well. Perhaps more than at any other time in history, hell is under fire. The implications of the historic view of hell make the popular alternatives, annihilationism and universalism, seem extremely appealing. But the bottom line is still God’s Word. What does the Old Testament reveal about hell? What does Paul the apostle have to say, or the book of Revelation? Most important, what does Jesus, the ultimate expression of God’s love, teach us about God’s wrath? Upholding the authority of Scripture, the different authors in Hell Under Fire explore a complex topic from various angles. R. Albert Mohler Jr. provides a historical, theological, and cultural overview of ‘The Disappearance of Hell.’ Christopher Morgan draws on the New Testament to offer three pictures of hell as punishment, destruction, and banishment. J. I. Packer compares universalism with the traditional understanding of hell, Morgan does the same with annihilationism, and Sinclair Ferguson considers how the reality of hell ought to influence preaching. These examples offer some idea of this volume’s scope and thoroughness. Hell may be under fire, but its own flames cannot be quenched by popular opinion. This book helps us gain a biblical perspective on what hell is and why we cannot afford to ignore it. And it offers us a better understanding of the One who longs for all people to escape judgment and obtain eternal life through Jesus Christ.Has anyone here read this book?

I’ve been asked to read chapter 4, titled Paul on Hell by Douglas J. Moo (who I’ve been told is something like the world’s most qualified person on Pauline theology :open_mouth: ) It’s free to download from his website djmoo.com/articles/paulonhell.pdf

Anyway, I’ll post my reflections as I go…

The photocopy I was given is barely readable so I bought (hope it’s worth it!!) the eBook for $9.99. However, the stupid site charged me $65 postage!!! :imp: I hope they refund that…

#2

i could also say that the flames of hell cannot be ignited by popular opinion/church dogma/oppressive church leadership/preachers with loud catchy sermons…

…or maybe, in a temporary way, they can…

let us know what you think…i can’t be bothered shelling out money to read a book that teaches a doctrine i heard preached all my life of which God has now relieved me.

#3

Moo is a very conservative evangelical scholar. I have got his commentary on Romans where he is very dismissive of universalist readings of Paul.

#4

If you used a credit card, contest the charges. Should be an easy case to contest. There should be no “postage” for an e-book. I have successfully contested unjust online charges.

#5

I could not finish chapter one. :astonished: Just reading the Table of Context is like reading the Who’s Who of the Calvinist camp.

YAK, YAK YAK,and more YAK… we know where these guys are coming from.

“Following the example of Jesus, the early Christian evangelists and preachers called sinners to faith in Christ and warn of the sure reality of hell and the eternal punishment of the impenitent” Mohler Jr.

Please show me scripture and verse :confused: I did not hear that from Peter with his first sermon. Or Paul when he spoke to the guys in Greece. Or any of Paul’s letters to the Believers. Please! :unamused:

“The doctrine of hell now bears the mark of odium theologium- a doctrine retained only by the most stalwart defenders of conservative theology, Catholic and Protestant”. Mohler

Boy, he would make Calvin proud :laughing:

Sorry. :blush: Don’t mean to come off so :imp:

But ever since I came away from my Five Point roots (well I really was only 4.0 :laughing: ) to a more Christus Victor view of the atonement, I can only take so much from my Cal Brothers before I start pulling my hair out. And I don’t have much more to spare :laughing:

But like I said, just after reading this first chapter(or part thereof), it’s just more the same old, same old. What a piece of Calvinistic propaganda. Thier way or the highway. :cry:

#6

LOL nicely put. to be honest i’m not going to bother reading it myself…as you say, we know where they’re coming from. i’m not going to hear new arguments, just old ones that left me unsatisfied before.

anyway, nice to know there is hope for calvinists! you survived it LOL

#7

LOL :laughing: I’m glad they can’t legally follow the example of Calvin and run around and have us burnt at the stake. They can only try to do it verbally :mrgreen:

#8

I think I can say with some assurance that this will be higher quality work than, say, Francis Chan… :wink:

Although someone’s lack of precision is amusing, whether it’s Dustin Bagby’s or one of the contributors by reference:

Hum. Well, annihilationists like to call themselves proponents of conditional immortality, partly because they are, and partly because that sounds less negative than being proponents of annihilationism. But strictly speaking most Kaths and ECTers affirm conditional immortality of created souls, too–even if ECT proponents sometimes forget they do and speak as though the condemned soul goes off somewhere to exist independently of God and/or dependent on some other Independent Fact aside from God.

When they go that route, ECTers (whether Calvinistic or Arminianistic) do in fact deny conditional immortality.

And hey, there’s someone saying that the book not only “critiques” “annihilationism” and “universalism” but also “critiques” “conditional immortality”!

Way to disavow supernaturalistic theism there, woot… :wink: :laughing:

That was probably by accident, but I thought the irony was amusing (since ECT proponents are the ones most likely to fall into that error along the way of affirming ECT.)

#9

I have a copy of that book Alex if you’d like to borrow it. (I haven’t asked you to read a book yet but when I do I think it’ll be the recently published God’s Glory in Salvation through Judgment.)

I have a great difficulty with threads like these and only stick around the forum because Alex posts here. These contributors aren’t imprecise calvinistic propagandists who are trying to crush people with their writing, but by in large theologically conservative scholars doing their best to convey what Scripture says. Engage with the actual arguments they present (or fair summaries of them) but don’t use ad hominem tactics that simply reinforce each other’s presuppositions.

#10

Thanks, but just bought the eBook :slight_smile: My reading queue at the moment is, although I’ll let your suggestion jump the queue :mrgreen: :
]Paul on Hell by Douglas J. Moo/]
]Finish “All Shall Be Well” by Robin Parry/]
]What Did The Cross Achieve by J. I. Packer/]
]The Great Divorce by C. S. Lewis/]
]Hope Beyond Hell by Gerry Beauchemin/]
]Evil and the Cross: An Analytical Look at the Problem of Pain by Henri Blocher/]
]The One Purpose of God by Jan Bonda/]
]Cry of Justice by Jason Pratt/]
]Hope against Hope: Christian Eschatology at the Turn of the Millennium by Richard Bauckham and Trevor Hart/]
]Her Gates Will Never be Shut by Bradley Jersak/]

Sorry Luke, I wasn’t trying to stir up angst against Calvinism :blush: Most Calvinists that I’ve come into contact with are genuinely wanting to understand/speak the truth. I agree with you that all Christians should be lovingly trying to speak the truth. Thanks for being patient.

#11

I’ve begun My review of “Paul on Hell” by Douglas J. Moo