The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How does Jesus's resurrection make people righteous?



There is no satanic BS about it. We are the way we are because of choice, and we have choice because of GOD.



That was me



Peter 2:38:wink: Look it up COC will spew that in your face every chance they get.



??? Don’t understand.



But Bob I would say that if you wanted to really figure out Pantelism, and take a scientific approach, you would have looked at the evidence. If you google Pantelism, you will find all kinds of information. Randy even put forth a few (one being Wikipedia I think) definitions him self.

Or you could take a few hours and research what has been posted about Pantelism on this site. There is much here.

You seem to want to grind an axe, and I totally understand that, but for Pantelism to be a workable view of scripture in peoples minds does not have the pass your ‘I’m not convinced’ filter.

Just a thought brother.



I came across this long essay…Which appears to be pro-Pantelism. I tried to put this on a separate line. But it doesn’t work for the Pantelism or Comprehensive Grace article. I’ll be interested in article feedback…from ANY pro, neutral and anti pantelism factions here. Here’s the Pantelism or Comprehensive Grace (Short version) article.

Anyway, back to entertaining my dinner guests.



That opinion, is suspect. (I have to note that Randy did not say this but it was a quote from ‘Casual Sex and Casual Faith: A Fatal Fixation’

We want to believe God is all powerful and stoic and righteous and all, but what the heck, WHAT IF GOD HAS A SENCE OF HUMOR? How would we deal with that? If we are made in the image of God, and we love to laugh and enjoy and be creative and such, why do we think that God does not want this for the creation he created?:laughing:



Just a footnote here. This is NOT my opinion, Chad is quoting. But an article summary I posted - asking for feedback. Which raises an interesting question for me. Why in this forum software, I can put some article links…on a line by itself…and it generates a preview. And it doesn’t work for other articles…like the recent one on Pantelism I posted.



You were faster than me … look at the post



Excellent, Chad. You edited the post, as I posted the footnote. You are much faster than the zombies…I’m entertaining for dinner, in my recently shared - YouTube video. :wink:



I’m gonna be a little late for that, start without me if you like…



Okay, I have just learned that this is a quote, and did not originate from you, Chad.

No one on this forum has even HINTED that God does not want people to laugh and enjoy His creation and to be creative. Where do people get the idea that some of us think this way?

What we want to get across is that God doesn’t want us to hurt each other—for example by torture, murder, rape, etc. That’s the essence of “sin”—doing that which will hurt others or yourself. God WANTS us to be happy and to enjoy life.

(Psalm 16:11) You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy; at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

But many people derive pleasure from seeing others suffer. That is a twisted “pleasure” and it grieves the great, loving heart of God to see it so prevalent throughout the world.

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MM, I agree with what you say here. However, you then say this:

How does that work?

This is why God made the perfect everlasting covenant: that if we circumcise our hearts and obey His voice, He will be our God and we will be His people. Or in other words, as Isaiah says : “Return to Me and I will return to you.” It doesn’t matter what someone has done, or how many times we mess up, but by returning, He returns; plain and simple. As Isaiah 30:15 says " In returning and rest you shall be saved." This is the ONLY covenant that ever was, is and ever will be. Any other is a false man-made one.



First of all, who in the “What we want to get across is that God doesn’t want us to hurt each other.” Is the WE?



Look LLC, I appreciate and am in understanding of your position, for I took that same position for many years, but we as humanity have no need to do anything to gain Gods favor. I will say that again, we as humanity have no need to do anything to gain Gods favor. This is the understanding of fulfilled grace.

Now LLC, if you disagree with me, please tell me how bad, or how many sins or at what low point… Let’s skip that lets go to what you said…

So I assume this is a pre requisite to righteousness? Because this is the original OP, but I hope you come back and tell me NO this is not a condition of righteousness.

What about people who do not (or as we should say have never) believe(d) in the God of Israel, who obviously Isaiah was talking about?

You are taking the modern evangelical idea that all of scripture was written to you…To us here in modern time. Well, I don’t think that is the case and as such, much of your theory might be in question.

AND I will ask you about your view of the tribal people who have no understanding of our God. Babies who die without knowing God at all, I guess I am trying to paint you into a corner so you can tell me how you think about the disenfranchised, and the week and the undernourished and the people society has dumped? WHO HAVE NO IDEA OF OUR GOD?

Our God is a God of INFINiTE GRACE.



Bob, I checked out that 4 Views of Atonement book. Unfortunately, none of the authors espouse a moral influence model like you have.



There are more than just four theories. The moral influence theory, is an established one.



Yes, in an evangelical series, the sense that moral influence is not a theory of an objective transaction makes it unpopular in conservative circles who are apt to omit it. I’d say my own perception that the NT emphasizes that the cross’ purpose is to defeat the power of evil and change us more than to change God’s disposition puts me closer to a form of Christus Victor, with aspects of Moral Influence also.

I have been nudged in that direction by a sense that the violence of Jesus’ crucifixion should be attached to sinful men rather than to God, as articulated in J. Denny Weaver’s “Stricken by God” and “The Non-violent Atonement.”



Thanks for that explanation and for the tips for some reading.



Thanks Bob. I second what DaveB said. I’m unfamiliar with Weaver. What reason does he give for unbelievers being condemned?