The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How God Became King


It’s hard to insult anyone, Davo…who practices Mindfulness, Yoga; Zen. Everyone is free to “sell”, theological and philosophical ideas here. Mine is that the Zombie Apocalypse…, is the most probable, end-times tribulation model. But I have to continue, any “dialogue” later. Now it’s time to dabble in social media and language.

Everything is a “matter of perspective”. Folks embracing the historical creeds, might see what you present - as absurd. Just as you might see, what I present - as absurd. It’s all a matter of perspective.

Though this be madness yet there is method in it - act ii - Hamlet


Good, because it wasn’t an insult but advice. I don’t speak for anyone else, but I suspect when it comes to your zombies I might not be the only one who…


Well, if the prophecies are TRUE. We might NOT like them. Or ME talking about them. But they would be coming - sooner or later. :slight_smile:

“Change always comes bearing gifts.”-- Price Pritchett

And where would we be, if Paul Revere never rode a horse…shouting:

Though this be madness yet there is method in it - act ii - Hamlet

See Though this be madness - Shakespeare Speaks and `Hamlet – in 4 Minutes


Randy said: In fact, if one types the keywords “zombie apocalypse tribulation youtube” into Google…You can see that more than one person…NOT related to each other…is presenting videos of the Zombie Apocalypse and the tribulation…and they are ALL Christian.

Look Randy, everyone knows you are yanking our chain…More than one person out of several million_. Randy you have a way with words :smile:

You are a marketer.



Yes, Chad. I am both a technologist and a marketer. But am I “pulling your chain?” If one can speak relatively good French. And made an extended trip to Haiti. They could track down the voodoo priests and priestess, and find the zombies for themselves. Or, if they are unlucky - they could become one themselves.

Or one can go to Amazon and order books like Beyond The Lodge of The Sun and Kindling the Native Spirit. And they can see them talk about things, like being in 2 places at once, shape shifting into animals, turning invisible or astral travel. And these are REAL natives. Talking as if these stuff is common, to Native traditions around the world.

And one can see similar things, from a yoga perspective. In books on Amazon, like The Incredible Life of a Himalayan Yogi: The Times, Teachings and Life of Living Shiva: Baba Lokenath Brahmach or This House Is On Fire: The Life of Shri Dhyanyogi. And yes. I spent time with the authors of both books. And the subject of the last one.

And one can see the same thing, in the lives of Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic saints. And my Protestant mom, now deceased - was born with the gift of prophesy. And I hung out with Native American, medicine men and women for years…Under the umbrella of the Two Feathers Medicine Clan.

So, I’m NOT yanking your chain, on whether supernatural elements exist or not. And I don’t believe that the Devil, is some kind of “cosmic God” - everywhere present and all powerful - causing these things.

As far as specific questions on the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse…I’ll give you my standard CIA answer.

However, if we throw out the historical creeds…and what the church fathers and reformers have to contribute…Then ANYTHING here is EQUALLY plausable, from a theological and philosophical standpoint.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Hamlet

For the record…I don’t try to “sell” the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse…as the most probable, end times tribulation model. But if someone is trying to “sell” me, something outside the historical creeds and collective, statistical theological consensus. Or some type of super political viewpoint or solution. Then I feel it’s also OK, to bring up this subject matter. After all. It’s within the scope of possibility. And I want the “truth to be known”, as Fox Mulder of the X-Files - might say.

But don’t believe just everything, you see on TV.


So, any discussion outside historical creeds and mainline theology - you feel free to stifle with some ZA nonsense? You have that need to control what you don’t agree with? To put a stop to it? To effectively and unilaterally change the course of the conversation?
Ego, much? Disdain for the opinions of others, much?
I think you’ve weaponized the poor zombie.
I am the posterboy for anti-creed talk - though to be fair, I gave actual reasons why I disagree with much of them - and ‘super political’ talk - though to be fair, I tried to give actual reasons for being fair-minded about Trump and waiting to see what he actually DOES.
Just sayin’


I’m just saying I have my views. Which is that the Zombie Apocalypse, is the most probable - end times, tribulation model. But I also believe in restraint. Unless it is open season, regarding ANY theological and philosophical topic.

After all, we either have HEARD or KNOW, what the Orthodox positions are. But the UNORTHODOX positions - must ALSO be represented.

I’m just saying I won’t cast the first stone. After all. I’m sure zombies have feelings too. :wink:

So let me paraphrase Jesus. He who is without sin, let him or her - present an unorthodox position first. If nothing else, it breaks the ground - for the zombies to present their viewpoint.


I find your views to be intelligent and fair and I’m glad you are a prominent member of the forum. I do find the ZA intrusions, used as a means for stifling the views of others, to be a pita.
But then, I’m sure that I in my entirety am considered a pita by some…


No, Dave. I don’t use zombies, to stifle the views of others. I respect unorthodox views. After all, I’m a member of the Theosophical Society in America. And I been to tons, of their guest speakers - presenting unorthodox views.

But I also think, my zombie viewpoint deserves EQUAL consideration. But if others present their unorthodox views first…then it’s usually an opening, to see how the zombies - do or don’t fit in - with their perspective. Or if some political element, might trigger the Zombie Apocalypse

If I listen to their viewpoints and arguments…then they should also listen to - and consider mine. What’s so MIND BOGGLING about zombies anyway? Philosophers find them, a favorite topic of conversation. It’s like we are sipping tea, in a Zen temple. And seeing how ONE unorthodox viewpoint, might relate to - contrast with - or trigger…another unorthodox viewpoint.


Well, as you’ve mentioned a few times, the ZA is an end-times tribulation model.
As such, I don’t how it fits in any thread that is trying to present a view not even related to end times.
I think we have an eschatology department on the forum - would it not make most sense to post ZA (Apocalypse!!!) in THAT department, rather than in threads dealing with, say, When God Became King?
(Theosophy - a major theme in the cult classic novel “LIttle, Big” by John Crowley.


If I recall correctly, Chad brought up the topic of everything being complete - in Christ. You said you wouldn’t follow the shinning object. I said I would, if a few zombies could tag along.

In other words, do we view a completion prophesy perspective of Chad …and Christians seeing zombies in the tribulation - as forward or backwards looking in time?

Then Davo began a “dialogue”. And he and I continued the dialogue - for a spell. That’s how I remember and see things - via this thread. And I continued later, the “dialogue” with Chad…and now you.

As far as Theosophy goes, I’m a member chiefly for using - their extensive library resources. But I also agree, with their 3 general objects. But I don’t side with theosophical or esoteric views - as such. Here are their Three Objects:

To form a nucleus of the universal brotherhood of humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste or color.
To encourage the comparative study of religion, philosophy and science.
To investigate unexplained laws of nature and the powers latent in humanity.

These three Objects form the foundation for the work of the Theosophical Society (TS). However, they can be interpreted on many levels.

But questions can be raised, via this “dialogue”…Deep ones, mind you. Like:

  • But any book of Revelations, as a prophesy being complete in 70 A.D. - raises many open questions. Like my Protestant mom, now deceased at 92.5. years…was born with the gift of prophesy. WHY?

  • Is prophesy still alive and well, in Christians and the church today? We have the Marian prophesies, of the Roman Catholic Church. And the prophesies coming from church members, of the Charismatic movement.

  • If different Christians see the Zombie Apocalypse, as happening during the tribulation…how does this fit, into a 70 A.D. everything is complete model? Do you just IGNORE it, because it doesn’t fit your model? Or say it’s un-biblical, when it doesn’t really CONTRADICT, anything - in the book of Revelations?

  • Etc.

I might have to break, for a few hours. So we can continue any “dialogue” later.


Those are all good questions with which I have no problem at all.Alas, like most of us, I don’t have unlimited time to go down every rabbit-hole that comes along (I like going down the rabbit-holes, don’t get me wrong), so some themes that I find interesting I have to leave alone in order to pursue what are for me, more pressing claims to what mental time I have.
I’m just saying - all things in their place.


Cool. Le’t’s stop the “dialogue” for a spell, and give folks a change - to savor the exchange. In the meantime, perhaps folks can read this (I assume, excellent book) of N.T. Wright. Or at least read the reviews on Amazon. And get a copy free, via their local - public library…inter library loan program. Good for the U.S. And the equivalent in other countries.


Even there a guy’s gotta be careful! :rofl::rofl:


Randy, the exchange is quite straightforward. Dave asked davo and MM about the inherent coincidence between a given idea “in the quote he shared” that was put forth in the text involved. Both davo and MM (me) gave a response. :grinning:

You seem to have a ongoing problem with this view, which I have no problem with, but it is just an opinion. Your zombie idea is from my point of view well considered. And also just an opinion.

Peace bro


Hi Chad. The different between you, Davo and myself - is Sola Scrpitura. Which means you try to understand Christian truth, from the Protestant text alone. Which many here do. But I get Christian truth from Prima Scriptura and Sacred Tradition as the lens - to understand Holy Scripture. So right of the bat, we would have a difference of approaches.

As far as Zombies goes, I believe the Zombie Apocalypse, tribulation prophesies - are real. But that doesn’t necessarily mean, we understand them literally. Or if they are literal, that they are cast in concrete. Much might depend collectively on us.


Well that will be a big argument, because I have come from that camp.
I’m up for the debate.

Let’s get it on.



It will never be settled, Because it’s NOT settled between Protestants vs Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. So if I don’t buy into Sola Scrpitura, how would we ever - get off the ground?

And in reality, this thread is about a book by N.T. Wright. Perhaps if you started a thread on Sola Scriptura, I might pop in to visit.

But I also reserve the right, to approach the topic - with marketer and Holy Fool hats.


Hate to butt in - but I found a youtube lecture by Wright that is called: How God Became KIng!

How God Became King


My understanding is that you where the sola scripituria guy, but in understanding, you where the orthodox RC guy, so yes we can settle this between the protestants and the Catholics / orthodox Christians.