The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How is the Darby translation?

I’ve been looking to replace my ESV with a Bible version that uses God’s name as my primary reading Bible. Apparently the Darby Bible mainly refers to God as Jehovah instead of the LORD. Anyone here familiar with the Darby? Is it a good translation?

Darby popularized dispensationalism re eschatology so if it’s a study bible it may reflect that.

I’m aware of his theology. I don’t care what a person or group’s theology is as long as their translation is accurate. I can ignore any notes.

If the apparent rendering of God’s name is of major concern for you you should know that Jehovah is simply the Anglosized transliteration or form of Yahweh — which of course is technically the Anglosized form of the original YHWH minus vowels that they didn’t use. So maybe finding a version using Yahweh might be worth a look?

You might find this short youtube of interest.

I’ve been looking for one but it’s slim pickings. :frowning:

The Darby translation is hard to find new and it tends to be very expensive.

Yeah and I wouldn’t be throwing good money after bad… he was the guy who placed his theology in the footnotes on each page of his edition that the unsuspecting and ignorant readings public then swallowed as gospel — “because it’s in the Bible” — THAT’S HOW Dispensationalism got its foothold and grip on the American evangelical psyche; much to its detriment and credibility.

I have my dad’s 74’ edition of the Jerusalem Bible and my mum’s 85’ edition the New Jerusalem Bible — now there is the Revised New Jerusalem Bible. You can see a comparison between the 3 editions at this JW blog HERE.

You can read the New Jerusalem Bible online HERE — there are other online versions of the same. You can download a pdf of the Jerusalem Bible 3rd ed. 68’ right HERE.

The beauty of this edition is it is a Catholic bible so it contains ‘the Apocrypha’. Check out Gen 2:5ff to see how Yahweh (YHWH) is used as opposed to God (Elohim) in chapter one.

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Davo, yes, I’ve been considering buying a JB or NJB since I found out they use the divine name. It’s hard to find them new though, at least well constructed ones for less than $100. How are they as far as translations? Are they more word for word like the ESV and NASB or thought for thought like NIV?

Anyone here familiar with the New Jerusalem Version (NJV). Apparently it’s a messianic Bible with no connection to the (Catholic) Jerusalem Bible and subsequent editions.

The NJV sounds just about ideal for me. It’s word for word and uses the divine name. Another thing I really like is it retains the Jewish division of the Old Testament: Law, Prophets, and Writings. Unfortunately I can’t find ot on Amazon or Barnes and Noble. :frowning:

I have the Darby version as one of the translations in my Online Bible program. Peculiarly enough, it uses only “God” in Genesis 1, but beginning with Genesis 2:4, it uses “Jehovah Elohim” and later only “Jehovah”.

Ge 2:4 These are the histories of the heavens and the earth, when they were created, in the day that Jehovah Elohim made earth and heavens,
Ge 2:5 and every shrub of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew; for Jehovah Elohim had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground.
Ge 2:7 And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man became a living soul.
Ge 2:8 And Jehovah Elohim planted a garden in Eden eastward, and there put Man whom he had formed.
Ge 2:9 And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; and the tree of life, in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Ge 2:15 And Jehovah Elohim took Man, and put him into the garden of Eden, to till it and to guard it.
Ge 2:16 And Jehovah Elohim commanded Man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou shalt freely eat;
Ge 2:18 And Jehovah Elohim said, It is not good that Man should be alone; I will make him a helpmate, his like.
Ge 2:19 And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim had formed every animal of the field and all fowl of the heavens, and brought them to Man, to see what he would call them; and whatever Man called each living soul, that was its name.
Ge 2:21 And Jehovah Elohim caused a deep sleep to fall upon Man; and he slept. And he took one of his ribs and closed up flesh in its stead.
Ge 2:22 And Jehovah Elohim built the rib that he had taken from Man into a woman; and brought her to Man.
Ge 3:1 And the serpent was more crafty than any animal of the field which Jehovah Elohim had made. And it said to the woman, Is it even so, that God has said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Ge 3:8 And they heard the voice of Jehovah Elohim, walking in the garden in the cool of the day. And Man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Jehovah Elohim, in the midst of the trees of the garden.
Ge 3:9 And Jehovah Elohim called to Man, and said to him, Where art thou?
Ge 3:13 And Jehovah Elohim said to the woman, What is this thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent deceived me, and I ate.
Ge 3:14 And Jehovah Elohim said to the serpent, Because thou hast done this, be thou cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field. On thy belly shalt thou go, and eat dust all the days of thy life.
Ge 3:21 And Jehovah Elohim made Adam and his wife coats of skin, and clothed them.
Ge 3:22 And Jehovah Elohim said, Behold, Man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever … !
Ge 3:23 Therefore Jehovah Elohim sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken.
Ge 4:1 And Man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have acquired a man with Jehovah.
Ge 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering to Jehovah.
Ge 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock, and of their fat. And Jehovah looked upon Abel, and on his offering;
Ge 4:6 And Jehovah said to Cain, Why art thou angry, and why is thy countenance fallen?
Ge 4:9 And Jehovah said to Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: am I my brother’s keeper?

Actually it’s not as “peculiar” as I had imagined. A different Hebrew word is used. Even the New World Translation of Jehovah’s Witnesses translates as “God” in Genesis 1, and as “Jehovah God” where Darby has “Jehovah Elohim” and “Jehovah” alone where Darby has “Jehovah” alone.

I haven’t studied Hebrew and so wasn’t aware of this.
By the way, have you considered the New World Translation? I have found the NT in it pretty accurate(mostly). You might be able to get a free copy from one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

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I’ve nearly finished reading the N W T. I didn’t find it to bad a read either. Mine was a free copy given to me.

By the looks of it the only “new” one you’ll get is the RNJB HERE for about $US47 from England.

Hard to be objective on that for as always it comes down to one’s personal preference… exploring that pdf I posted will give you some idea etc.

Hey davo, do you think it’s possible for us to know the vowels of the divine name? If so, what do you think God’s name is?

Well as best as I can tell pretty much close to that video where he explains how in the 8th century scribes added vowels so as to indicate correct pronunciation from their word lord, i.e., adonai.

I don’t know Hebrew, but I understand the divine name was written without vowels, that would be (using the English alphabet “YHW”. The vowels were added, that is, “YAHWEH”.

Do we know if that’s how it’s always been? IIRC the oldest extant OT manuscripts are from around 150 to 200 BC. Just because these may not have vowels doesn’t mean older (lost) manuscripts didn’t.

Thoughts on the YT comment?

You will not find the “v” sound for the “waw” in any ancient abjad semitic languages, like Aramaic, which was spoken by Jacob for instance. Deuteronomy 26 explains him as a “a wandering Aramean.” The only language you find this “VAV” is modern" Hebrew. That speaks volumes to this subject. Classes teaching Biblical Hebrew in the Hebrew University and universities across the planet explain this, it’s common knowledge. I have spoken to a few professors from the Hebrew University and they all will freely admit the “VAV” is a late rendition and was originally a “WAW.” I learned this is my second class of Biblical Hebrew. If scholars “shot from the hip” then Biblical Hebrew classes would teach the “WAW” as a “VAV.” I find it rather interesting that NG’s professor and mentor (and person that gave him his “small part” in the Dead Sea Scrolls as NG puts it in his radio program) “Emmanuel Tov” (an actual Dead Sea Scroll Scholar) when asked about the name Yehovah, discredited it’s plausibility. He surprisingly responded by telling us to inquire a “Hebrew linguist” as this was not his expertise. When we inquired at numerous universities from Cambridge to the Hebrew University, they all told us to contact Stephen Fassberg (a major contributor to the Encyclopedia Judaica) at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem. Here is his response regarding Yehovah… He states, “The pronunciation you mentioned [i.e., Yehovah] is a mistake. The Hebrew consonantal text is YHWH and no one really knows how that was pronounced in Old Testament times. At a later date (the latter half of the 2nd millennium CE) Masoretes added vowel signs to the consonantal text. Whenever the Tetragrammaton was written, they added the vowel signs of the word ‘Adonay,’ which means ‘My Lord’ – there was a taboo on pronouncing the Divine name and one was supposed to read the word ‘Adonay – my Lord.’ Much later some started reading the vowel signs together with YHWH and came up with the nonsensical word Jehovah" Regarding the Waw he explained: “There is no doubt that the original sound was w and not v. Sometime during the history of the Hebrew language there was a shift from w > v in pronunciation, probably already during the Mishnaic Period” (email correspondence). NG is out of his league and does not have the credentials, study, nor experience in the field of Hebrew linguistics. The above video clearly demonstrates this. His education is in Biblical studies. I believe this is merely junk scholarship returning to the errors of early Vatican scholars that made up this name as a result of ignorance. Now we have a new era returning to the same nonsense by NG to sell books and create chaos.

I’d say yes it’s a good translation with the exception of a few verses, despite his anti-universalist stance. Darby worked also on a German translation, the Elberfelder bible, which I consider to be one of the best translations.