The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How Many Gods Are There?

…and why stop with just two or three, how about… “the seven Spirits of God” of John’s Revelation. :innocent:

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That is a total reading back into the text what one wants to believe. There is no basis for any trinitarian teaching at all.

I thought I would see, what Got Questions had to say - regarding ‘US’ in Genesis:

Answer: Genesis 1:26 says, “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’” Genesis 3:22 states, “And the LORD God said, ‘The man has now become like one of us.’” There are other passages in the Old Testament in which God refers to Himself using plural constructions. It is also interesting to note that Elohim , one of the primary titles of God in the Old Testament (occurring over 2,500 times), is in the plural form.

Some people have used these verses to hypothesize that there are more than one God. However, we can rule out polytheism (belief in multiple gods), because that would contradict countless other Scriptures that tell us that God is one and that there is only one God. Three times in Isaiah 45 alone, God states, “I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God besides Me” (vv. 5, 6, 18).

A second possible explanation for God’s referring to Himself in the plural is that God was including the angels in His statement. In saying “us” and “our,” God was speaking of all the heavenly host, Himself included. However, the Bible nowhere states that angels have the same “image” or “likeness” as God (see Genesis 1:26). That description is given to humanity alone.

Since the Bible, and the New Testament especially, presents God as a Trinity (three Persons but only one God), Genesis 1:26 and 3:22 can only represent a conversation within the Trinity. God the Father is having a “conversation” with God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Old Testament hints at the plurality of God, and the New Testament clarifies this plurality with the doctrine of the Trinity. Obviously, there is no way we can fully understand how this works, but God has given us enough information to know that He does exist in three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Just a footnote here: While ‘Trinity’ seems ‘reasonable’…God with the angels is also 'reasonable"…even though I side, with the ‘Trinity’ perspective.

This is absolutely false! NOWHERE does the New Testament “present God as a Trinity.”

Just a footnote here. It’s not me saying that statement…but the authors of the Got Questions site.

But I did click on their ‘Trinity’ link…to see what else, they had to say.

Where they even included, this YouTube video!

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There is no need to shout. My hearing aids work perfectly.

To slightly modify the quote from Hamlet, “Thou protesteth too much, methinks”.

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No, it does not imo. Once one DOES think that, however, then of course it can be ‘read back’ into all sorts of OT scenarios that have nothing to do with the hair-splitting formulations of later 4th century Emperor’s decrees.

Exactly. And what about wisdom? According to Proverbs, she was there with God as well. As Dave mentioned before, there could be X number of Gods that are exactly the same.

If you count up the number of times God is referred to as He, Him, the God of Israel ( not the Gods of Israel), and the number of times God speaks in the singular, I AM, I, Me, My; it far outweighs the plural.

I agree. Luke tells us who the Son of God is-Adam, Man; and not just any man, but man or men who are in the “likeness” of God. One thing’s for certain, man is NOT God and when he tries to be God, he falls.

Sometimes when one tries to present, some element of ‘truth’ - via the forum…and how folks might respond…reminds me of Sylvester and the bulldogs…regardless of whether Sylvester takes the “direct approach” or tries to use “strategy”. :rofl:

Et tu, my dear friend? Do all Unitarians have to shout to make their points? In NT Greek, Matt. 28:19 reads “Going therefore disciple all the nations, baptizing them to the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”.

Note “the name” - singular. One name, not three! One God, three Persons.

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One God. Who the heck is shouting? Using caps is the only way to emphasize a word that I know of. If you want something kinder and gentler, just let me know how.

Three persons? Well, I will leave that incomprehensible, unfathomable and completely un-scriptural language theory to you. Good luck.

Yes. But that is the explanation accepted by many for why on earth we believe GOD is referring to His Personage in the plural: “Let US make man in OUR image.”

A reference in Genesis to the Third Person of the Trinity:

Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

A prophecy in Genesis about the Second Person of the Trinity eventually coming to earth to save us:

Genesis 3:15
“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”

In the New Testament we see it all put together clearly for us, e.g.,:

Matthew 28:19
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

This "reading back,” as you put it, is very common. The question in each case is: is it done correctly? So, do you think Paul does it correctly in the following two examples about Tongues, and about Covenants? (And if so, HOW would you say our brother Paul managed it, Dave?)

1 Corinthians 14:21-22
21 In the Law it is written:
With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.” [Isaiah 28:11,12]
22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.

Galatians 4:24-27
24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.
25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.” [Isaiah 54:1]

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I didn’t mean to criticize you - honest. I’m new to all this computer stuff - you know that. I thought that using capital letters was shouting. If I want to emphasize part of a quote, I use the B for bold function. Are we still friends? Even though I am not unitarian?

That’s really not a lot different than this sort of an appeal… “I implore you in the name of decency, order and fairness to listen to my brother’s caution on this matter…” etc.

With all due respect, Davo, there is a world of difference.

In their day I could well imagine an apostle’s plea to Israel… “I appeal to you in the name of the testimony given, the miracles performed and so promises fulfilled, to believe this what you see and hear is the work of God!” — said testimony, miracles or promises fulfilled need not to be divinised or trinitised to be demonstrably the workings of God.

Not only this, but a lot comes down to how something is perceived, i.e., to baptise the nations in the name can be a way of saying… saturate the nations with the Gospel — the very thing that was wrought of the Father, through the Son in the power of the Spirit — for that to be true none of that requires Trinitarianism.

I’d like to add that according to early manuscripts of the NT, the reading of Matt. 28:19 does not include all three persons. That was a later addition to confirm their own bias.

Are you suggesting they were all Democrats back in the day? :sweat_smile:

My point exactly @Invernessian :smile:

God is definitely in more than three persons, and from what I understand, if He is not living in you and you in Him then you need some salvation.