The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

I believe discrimination against anyone is illegal because of race,religion or gender so having special classes of people get special protection IMO is a bad and short sighted idea.

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Steve to Chad.

I wonder if this view extends to zombies from Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9), if and when they arrive? :crazy_face:

Seems inconsistent.

Even if they had gender reassignment surgery?

I guess I am not as outraged as you over this.

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While Monday’s impeachment hearing was proceeding on Capitol Hill, President Donald Trump used a White House roundtable meeting to promote a school choice bill that aimed to open up educational choices for millions of “forgotten children” who are “locked into a school system that’s terrible.”

“Now is the time to fight for the forgotten child, and that’s what we are doing with respect to education,” said President Donald Trump, joined by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, and several students and teachers who utilize state-level school choice programs. “For decades, countless children have been trapped in failing government schools. In my administration, these children are forgotten no longer.”

The proposed Education Freedom Scholarships is a $5 billion program that would help families to cover the cost of attending a private or public grade K-12 school of their choice or pay for supplemental educational products such as online classes and after-school tutoring, among other things.

Another thing well done. Mr. President.

Not to mention:

The gov’t has actually done numerous things to support Christianity, including huge tax breaks for its’ institutions. But I don’t see its actions as enforcing belief in what you call an ideology, either in its support for religion or for gender choices. You remain entirely free to find others’ faiths or their belief in who is really a man or woman ridiculous.

It seems to me the actual challenge societies have faced who have found others’ offensive, whether homosexual or transgender, is not affirming what ideology is true, but how they will be treated in practice. Outrage about someone you feel has mutilated himself doesn’t erase the question of how the law should or should not protect them or their choices.

Forcing a buff Chaz Bono to enter women’s restrooms has its own dilemmas. Sometimes we have competing concerns: some perhaps are afraid of what transgender people will do, and many of them are afraid of what will be done to them, and democracies try to adjudicate a balance in such a conflict of felt needs.

In the scale of personal concerns, I personally have little anxiety about transgender people (mostly about their own welfare in facing such fate laden drastic choices). So I’m fine with saying, live and let live.

Thanks qaz I see your point and it is well taken…

Right on, Qaz. You put your finger on the very pulse of this thing.

Flying under the radar is that in amateur women’s sports, transgenders are starting to win to such an extent that leftist women are starting to oppose them in women’s sports.

OMG Trump may be impeached for obstructing Congress because he went to court to fight their subpoenas!
They didn’t charge Trump with bribery to protect good ole Joe Biden who actually did sell influence as did Hillary, but it’s OK because they are Dems.
Of course they are charging Trump with abuse of power which is based on opinion.

I’m sorta meat-and-potatoes on the gay issue. I first became aware of it in the 60’s and, since I lived in the SF Bay Area, it was not a positive awareness. When I enlisted with the Air Force in 1967, during the physical exam when 50 of us stood in a large circle, butt-nekkid, all facing outwards, and all bent over at the waist at one time so a sgt. could ‘make an inspection’; now and then he would laugh and call over a buddy and say ‘hey look at this one’, they’d both laugh, and the owner of said laughable orifice was told to go away and would not be accepted.
I don’t bring that up as humor, but to show attitudes back in the day - and this was in Oakland; I’m sure flyover country had much more judgmental attitudes at that time.
So for a long time I was unreflective on the issue.
When gay ‘rights’ finally got enough exposure that I became aware of it, I knee-jerked outrage and, since I had like minds around me, things would have stayed at that point.
I finally woke up a bit and recognized that of course, EQUAL rights meant just that; if gays were being discriminated against - for employment, housing etc - that was ‘wrong’. If they wanted to get married, ok. No discrimination under the law. Fine.
I have not changed a lot since then, even after opening my mind to the many issues involved. I’m still anti-SPECIAL rights, but all for equal rights for gays.
Of course we have now gone over the rails with this thing - reversal of sexual mores, deep confusion over gender and sex, ignoring the natural order, proselytizing children in school, taking apart the traditional family, imo paying too big a price in society for what is after all, a very few individuals. I find it very sad. The ‘alphabet people’ are WAY over-represented in the media, now in sports (as Steve mentioned above), well just about everywhere. I am well and truly sick and tired of their pretentiousness; their abnormality is not cause for celebration, nor for special favors, nor for their constant sermonizing about traditional morals.

You appear to say that allowing someone who’s chosen a ‘sex-change’ to identify that way means their belief is enforced by the gov’t on me, such that Chaz really “IS” a man. That makes no sense to me. It’s never made me believe they are no longer their born gender.

One dude in my flock identifying as a woman cried about his irreversible surgery, and sat there in his skirt, while his son entered and called him dad. I said, “this is an awkward mess,” not that he was a woman! And never felt gov’t had enforced that I must believe any ideology that he really was.a gal!

So since he hasn’t hurt me, I’m dense to why allowing him his choice so outrages you. How does gov’t letting him change his driver’s license, etc devastate you or rip you off? Again, if you insist that gov’t enforce your own belief that identity can’t be changed and Chaz not be allowed to identify herself as a guy, what is the practical legal result, that you force gals in women’s restroom to fear a big brute of a ‘guy’ has been forced by the government to use their restroom?

Shucks, I’d even be more comfortable if guys who’ve ‘transformed’ into an apparent woman not be required to stand next to my urinal unless they take off the lipstick :slight_smile: There’d be less difficulty.

From America’s shortest Anchorman:

" Accusations against President Trump in the Democratic drive to impeach him are so vague that they can mean anything – and nothing. Which is the point.
After all, when there’s no crime, you’ve to leave it to the imagination. And boy, is this "open to interpretation.” It’s like a Rorschach test for the blind. Which suits the media perfectly.

Remember how this process was reverse-engineered. It wasn’t “Here’s a crime, let’s impeach.” It was “Let’s impeach and hope we find the crime.”

It’s the holiday reboot of “Let’s pass the bill to see what’s in it,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s last big hit.

What a flop. It was worse than “Angry Birds 2.”

Yet, we still had to carry the farce, despite the clowns who joked about Barron Trump and played dishonestly edited clips of President Trump. While the press tortured viewers by pretending it mattered, one question remained: Why didn’t Republicans just bolt?

After all, we all knew it was just a stupid skit designed to make Democrats feel good, since they’re immune to feeling stupid. The rest of us are left with what cops call “the mess.”

When thieves break into a house and find zilch, the only thing left to do is trash the place. Hence the amorphous abuse of power in one article of impeachment, which anyone can now use on the Democrats. And they should.

I mean, when you move forward with a three-year witch trial, knowing the only support will be partisan and therefore doomed to fail, while boasting that you’ll keep doing it forever – isn’t that abuse of power? It’s certainly an abuse of America’s patience, institutions, trust and cohesion.

Which makes it another media-assisted hoax.

“Collusion,” Covington Catholic, Brett Kavanaugh. Now this.

If you want to find the lie, just look where the media points the cameras."

Adapted from Greg Gutfeld’s monologue on “The Five” on Dec. 10, 2019.

Today, rather than some BBC articles (perhaps later?)…let’s look at some related, Got Questions Q and A. :wink:





I know. There will be some here, who…like the lady in Wendy’s commercial, say: :crazy_face:

Where’s the BBC?

Well, OK. Since folks insist. :crazy_face:

Thanks for trying to explain your own beliefs and rage. I’m still unclear why it’s less upsetting to me that gov’t doesn’t enforce my beliefs on others. Countless people identify in ways I also think are incorrect, or adopt what I think is the wrong dress code, etc. etc. And I’m fine.

But my perception is that America’s genius is freedom wherein we reject gov’t as having the role of enforcing one group’s beliefs upon another. The radical Left and totalitarian nations are where the state enforces such “ethics” believed to be pure, dress requirements are enforced, and someone like Bono would be forced into women’s restrooms. I much prefer our American system.

In all cases where I believe they identify “incorrectly,” they’d be in my view by definition “people identifying as something they’re not.”

I never support the gov’t determining that I must believe others are what they claim to be. But in your earlier words, I support limited gov’t and the great power of the state leaning toward "letting" others have the freedom to dress as they want, etc, when it doesn’t directly injure me. I’m wary of gov’t as the moral police.

No, that is not deception. It could be deceptive, but it isn’t necessarily deceptive. It could be delusional, and yet honestly believed in. Additionally, they could be correct and right.

You believe in genetic defects, right? Who is to say that this couldn’t be that scenario? You have already accepted many other ailments, even ones that have no proof. Fibromyalgia is totally undiagnosable besides what people claim. Does that mean the people who believe it are deceptive and wrong because I might not believe the condition exists?

What I am hearing from you is that you are so sure of your position being correct about another person, that the only possible scenario for a transgender is that they are “roleplaying” and are being deceptive about it. I don’t see it that way.

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"Obama had refused to provide needed lethal aid to Ukraine. He sent Biden to Ukraine, who used the stick of threatening to cancel all nonlethal aid in return for the carrot of not embarrassing Biden, Obama, and the Democratic party with a messy investigation of Burisma — and by extension Biden’s son — with obvious importance to the 2016 campaign cycle.

If Trump can be impeached for delaying lethal aid to Ukraine for a few weeks, then surely Obama and Biden should have been impeached for doing something worse. In other words, once presidential prerogatives are criminalized and impeachment is used for short-term political gain, then the revolutionary process takes on a life of its own and will eventually devour its own creators. In such a downward spiral, impeachment has become no big deal, but a simple way of discrediting a president the opposition hates.

From now on, the party that holds the House majority will cite the present impeachment inquiry as good precedent for seeking the impeachment of any first-time president whose agendas they abhor and who they fear will be reelected. We are in revolutionary times, and those who redefined impeachment as a crude political effort will one day discover that they are being guillotined by the very instrument of retribution they erected." - VDH

Now, this is interesting. Since I am a fan, of superhero books and movies. :crazy_face: