These articles are must reads:
Esau is symbolic of the flesh Jacob the spirit
I wouldn’t deal with the verse at all. Jesus revealed God as He really is. Prior to Jesus’ revelation of God, God’s character was known only in part.
These two reflect in-kind Ishmael and Isaac. The pattern being indicative of… “the flesh” Ishmael = children of the old covenant with likewise “the spirit” Isaac = children of the new covenant, as per Gal 4:22-24, 29.
christianforums.com/threads … l.8043477/
None of those things will - ever - in this life or the next - stop the Lord Jesus, Love Omnipotent, from Loving anyone.
God is love. That’s what He is & does. Always & ever.
Therefore it is unconditional toward other beings, humans & angels.
Even when He judges, is angry, punishes, or chastises. Like a perfect father toward his children, all this is “in love”.
He loves others, no matter what they do.
IOW He has unconditional love.
There is nothing you could ever do, or have ever done, that would stop Him from being what He is, & loving you.
God is love.
Scripture - never - says He is judgement or wrath.
Judgement & wrath are things He uses - in His love - which motivates everything He is & does - to correct His created beings.
“When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness.” (Isa.26:9)
Job 5:17-18 “Behold, happy is the man whom God corrects; Therefore do not despise the chastening of the Almighty. For He bruises, but he binds up; He wounds, but His hands make whole.”
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.…(1 Cor.5:4-5)
Because I have sinned against him,
I will bear the LORD’s wrath,
until he pleads my case
and upholds my cause.
He will bring me out into the light;
I will see his righteousness.
(Micah 7:9)
He hates the old man, the sinful nature, the flesh. When men follow that instead of seeking Love Eternal, He is angry with them, i.e. hates them, that which they identify with (the old man) for their own good. Compare:
“If anyone is coming to Me and is not hating his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, and still more his soul besides, he can not be My disciple.” (Lk.14:26)
“But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.” (Mt.16:23)
He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. (Mt.10:39)
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. (Gal.5:24)
We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. (Rom.6:6)
Ephesians 4:22
You were taught to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;
Colossians 2:11
In Him you were also circumcised in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands.
Colossians 3:9
Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices,
mercifultruth.com/doesgodhate.html
He is not so weak, impotent & failing. Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.
“He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.” (Isa.53:11).
For how “many” (not few) did He “bear their iniquities”? All.
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life’s justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
Paul makes a parallel between “the many” who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.
“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”
Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.
Paidion, I disagree, as Romans 1:20-21 says “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen , being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.”
God made Himself known to man from day one and has been continually reminding us of who He is ever since.
Genesis 41:3, speaking of Joseph, “Can we find anyone like this man? One in whom is the Spirit of God?”
Job 34:19 “Who shows no partiality to princes nor regard the rich more than the poor, for they are all the work of his hands.”
Psalm 136:26 “Give thanks to the God of heaven for His steadfast love endures forever.”
Psalm 130:3-4 “If You Lord mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand, but there is forgiveness with You that You may be feared.”
Obviously, it is man who has trouble remembering who God is.
.
Deut.32:18 “Of the Rock who begot you, you are unmindful, and have forgotten the God who fathered you.”
I agree. The children of the old covenant= those who rebel against God and set up kingdoms according to their own rules and regulations=the flesh. Likewise, the children of the Spirit= those who follow the one and only true covenant that was, is and always has been since the beginning.
This battle still goes on today.
I don’t see how that passage expresses your disagreement.
Jesus Himself said:
If God’s very essence is LOVE, if God is kind even to ungrateful people and evil people, If there in no darkness at all in God, then how can you believe that God hates people, will drive them out of his house, and will love them no more? That’s a contradiction!
If we are forced to choose between what Hosea wrote about God’s character and what Jesus said about His character (and we are!) should we not choose what the Son of God said?
Or a reference to national Israel? Or figures of speech, as explained at:
mercifultruth.com/doesgodhate.html
Compare Jesus own words about hate:
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters–yes, even their own life–such a person cannot be my disciple.
“Was Jesus ever angry?”:
gotquestions.org/Jesus-angry.html
Most commentators believe that this was a special use of the word “hate” and in this context means “love less.”
Also, there’s no doubt that Jesus was angry during His sojourn on earth. But “anger” is not tantamount to “hate.”
What are your thoughts on these Scriptures:
Jn. 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 16:27
For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.
Deuteronomy 7:12-13
12"Then it shall come about, because you listen to these judgments and keep and do them, that the LORD your God will keep with you His covenant and His lovingkindness which He swore to your forefathers.
13 He will love you and bless you and multiply you; He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your new wine and your oil, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock, in the land which He swore to your forefathers to give you.
Proverbs 8:17
"I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.
Psalm 146:8
The LORD opens the eyes of the blind; The LORD raises up those who are bowed down; The LORD loves the righteous;
Proverbs 15:9
The way of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD, But He loves one who pursues righteousness.
Deuteronomy 13:17
"Nothing from that which is put under the ban shall cling to your hand, in order that the LORD may turn from His burning anger and show mercy to you, and have compassion on you and make you increase, just as He has sworn to your fathers,
Deuteronomy 7:6"For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
7"The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt
The passages in John are clear. They mean exactly what they say, and I believe them. There is love between the Father and the Son and the disciples of Christ who keep His commandments, demonstrating thereby that they love Him.
In the Old Testament, Moses and other writers seem to have believed that God loved only the people of Israel.
Like the OT passages quoted, in the following verses Jesus teaches that God loves certain people “because” they love Him & “because” they keep HIs words. Which implies what about those who do not do so?
Jn. 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 16:27
For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.
Like the OT passages quoted, in the following verses Jesus teaches that God loves certain people “because” they love Him & “because” they keep HIs words. Which implies what about those who do not do so?
Didn’t Jesus say to “love your enemy” and also didn’t he say that he does the Father’s Will?
Are you suggesting that God does NOT love the others? If so, how could the apostle John affirm that God loved THE WORLD of people, as written in John 3:16?
In the sense of love less [than before, or than others] or removing favors, or bringing judgements or by use of metonymy, etc, perhaps. As per:
jamesbishopblog.com/2015/03/04/ … -psalm-55/
Scripture says God is love, but never AFAIK that He is hate, wrath, or anger. Though He may use such to correct His wayward creatures.
Let’s say because person A loved person B he performed a past completed act of love toward person B. Does that require person A does not hate what person B is as a sinner & lover of darkness? Or that person A would not thereafter hate person B if person B rejects that act of love & willfully chooses to continually hate & reject person A?
Jesus asked His disciples to love those who hated and persecuted them:
Yes. I suppose the following passages refer to a special love only those who love & obey Christ obtain. Others are not loved by God in this way:
Jn. 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 16:27
For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Well maybe the difference is the manifestation of Jesus/God possibly through the Holy Spirit to the believer but not to the unbeliever?