Imputation (The Robe of Righteousness)


#31

James White has shown that that is a lie about Calvin. Just because one believes that they are covered in Christ’s righteousness when they have faith doesn’t make them evil. Those that just believe something without faith don’t understand faith. Piper and Edwards and Craig all believe in an infused righteousness along with imputed. Christ’s atoning death secures the future with his blood bought promises. Example:

Vengeance is Mine I will Repay

When my faith is in God the desires for sin is pushed out of the heart. I let go and let God handle it. Rather I love the enemy just like Christ did. Another example:

God works all things together for good for those that love Him.

I place my faith in God and Christ as it gives me hope. Righteousness is imputed but it’s also infused. If you think that’s dangerous you are blinded by Satan. Dealing with shame:

If we confess our sins He will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

My faith is in God. Indeed. when facing temptation I trust God when He says

Resist the devil and he will flee.

It’s faith working itself out through love. When my future is in the hands of an all powerful and loving God who promises to work out all my circumstances for good, anxiety is broken as the heart opens up to love. The desires that lead to sin are pushed out of my heart as God infuses me and covers me with His righteousness.


#32

In the opinion of Joseph Prince, a non Calvinist, righteousness is not right doing, but right being:

“For example, when you feel lousy because you have just shouted at your wife, God wants you to exercise your faith to see yourself as still righteous in the midst of that failure. This living revelation that you are still righteous will give you the strength to love your wife and reconcile things with her.”

"The devil may remind you of your foul temper and question your integrity: “How dare you call yourself righteous when you just did that!” Just ignore his lies and boldly declare, “I am not righteous because of what I have done or not done. I am righteous only because of the blood and finished work of Jesus at the cross!” "

“RIGHTEOUSNESS AND NOT SIN IMPUTED TO YOU”:

"Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

“You are blessed today because all your sins are forgiven in Christ. God does not count your sins against you. Instead, He counts you righteous in Christ.”


#33

I’m finding out that reformers take issue with John Piper’s doctrine of justification. He believes that saving faith causes a change and produce good works and I agree with Him. He believes that our present justification is by faith alone but that final justification is in accord with our works:

John Piper: Present justification is based on the substitutionary work of Christ alone, enjoyed in union with him through faith alone. Future justification is the open confirmation and declaration that in Christ Jesus we are perfectly blameless before God. This final judgment accords with our works. That is, the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives will be brought forward as the evidence and confirmation of true faith and union with Christ. Without that validating transformation, there will be no future salvation. [Christianity Today, The Justification Debate: 2009, Compiled by Trevin Wax]

Sounds good to me but Reformers take issue with him and say he’s more in line with Rome with his idea that they call novel.


#34

Yes, those who have submitted to Christ are so delivered. But as I said, this is not stated in the Christian Scriptures.

When I was a teenager, and believed as typical evangelicals do, I thought that Tom, the local pastor of the Baptist Church I attended never preached the gospel. He was always talking about submitting to Christ, but he never spoke of the necessity of “accepting Christ as personal Saviour” or “trusting in the finished work of Christ.” He established me, being an older teenager, as leader of the young people. Once when I was talking to the young people, Tom realized that I didn’t understand the true gospel. So in talking with me privately, he asked, “Don, what are we saved from?”

Knowing the Scriptures to some extent, I responded, “We are saved from sin.”

Then he asked, “And what does that mean?”

Then I said, “It means that we are saved from the consequences of sin.” I meant “Saved from hell fire.”

Then Tom said, "Don, nowhere is it written that we are saved from the consequences of sin. It is written that we are saved from SIN!

I wasn’t ready to accept that at the time, but around ten years later, I discovered from my own studies that Tom was RIGHT. He had been preaching the gospel all along, but I had been too blind to realize it.


#35

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. ~~ Romans 5:9

It’s not either/or but both. We are saved from our sins as we are justified by faith. The same faith that justifies is the same faith that sanctifies. Of course I’m speaking of initial justification. Sanctification is a lifelong process until our final justification. As Piper states:

John Piper: Present justification is based on the substitutionary work of Christ alone, enjoyed in union with him through faith alone. Future justification is the open confirmation and declaration that in Christ Jesus we are perfectly blameless before God. This final judgment accords with our works. That is, the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives will be brought forward as the evidence and confirmation of true faith and union with Christ. Without that validating transformation, there will be no future salvation. [Christianity Today, The Justification Debate: 2009, Compiled by Trevin Wax]

Salvation = Salvation

Salvation = sanctification

Salvation = glorification


#36

It is a widespread idea that “sanctification” is something different from “salvation”. We are being saved from sin, as a lifelong process. Call it “sanctification” if you will. There is no instantaneous salvation from hell, with the idea that sanctification is good, but not necessary in order to “get to heaven.” The truth is that if we are travelling the narrow path that leads to life, we will be right with God if we die at any time during that journey. But if we get off that narrow path, and choose our own path, we won’t.


#37

The Bible says we were saved - we are being saved - and we will be saved. It contradicts you.


#38

Note: this is H.T.'s response to Paidion.

H.T.: For us “uninformed”…can you share some verses, for EACH of those 3 categories?


#39

We were saved

For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? ~~ Romans 8:24

We are being saved

Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure. ~~ Phil. 2:12

We will be saved

“Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed.~~ Romans 13:11

But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.” ~~ Acts 15:11


#40

Does committing any sins render a person “not on the narrow path”? Does a person have to be sinless to be on the narrow path?


#41

I agree with what “The Bible says.” And it doesn’t contradict me.


#42

The Greek verb translated as “were saved” is in the aorist tense. The aorist tense is not necessarily a past tense.

I can offer some much more effective verses to support completed salvation in the past:

(Ephesians 2:5) even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — …
(Ephesians 2:8) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God…

Here the verb is a “perfect passive” in both verses. That indicates a completed act.

These are the ONLY verses in the New Testament that definitely indicate salvation as completed. One of my Greek teachers (who was an Anglican priest) thought that these two verses were evidence that Paul was not the author of Ephesians since nowhere else does he use the perfect tense with respect to salvation.


#43

qaz, consider travelling on an ordinary earthly path in order to get to a destination. You may “sin” (get off the path). Does that imply that there is no possibility of reaching your destination? No, it does not. You may find your way back to the path again.

In the matter of the narrow path that leads to life, of which Jesus spoke: It is not individual slips into wrongdoing that condemns one. It is living a sinful lifestyle, and having no desire to correct yourself. If your basic lifestyle is one of submission to God through Christ, you need not worry.


#44

Here Jesus seems to connect salvation with forgiveness of sins:

Lk.7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. 49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph.1:7)

“He has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” (Colossians 1:13-14

“And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ also forgave you.” (Ephesians 4:32)

” . . . bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.” (Colossians 3:13)

“Christian are already saved, past tense: “by grace you have been saved” (Ephesians 2:5,8). The believer is already justified by faith, i.e., declared righteous by God on account of Christ. Thus the apostle Paul speaks of justification as something that has already occurred for the believer: “Therefore, having been justified by faith…much more then, having now been justified by His blood…” (Romans 5:1,9). He cannot be more or less justified, for His legal standing before God depends on the perfect righteousness and sacrifice of Christ. In this sense salvation is a specific, past event, and therefore the Christian can be assured that he is accepted by God.”


#45

In the first quote, Jesus said, “Your faith has saved you,” not “My forgiveness has saved you.”

In the second quote the Greek word “αφεσις” (aphesis) has been translated as “forgiveness.” True, it sometimes does mean “forgiveness” but, any good Greek lexicon also gives the meaning “release from bondage or imprisonment.” I suggest this is Paul’s intended meaning in this verse:

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the release from sins, according to the riches of His grace.

As for “the riches of His grace,” in Titus 2, Paul speaks of the enabling grace of God that "trains us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age, and also that Jesus gave Himself for us “to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works.” So we need to be freed from the bondage of sin.

Here’s another passage in which the word “aphesis” clearly means “release from bondage” and is so translated in most versions:

(Luke 4:18) “The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed.

The word is translated here as “set at liberty.” Clearly Jesus didn’t mean “To forgive those who are oppressed.” The oppressed don’t need forgiveness; they need to be set free from oppression.


#46

Jesus said to her:

  1. Thy sins are forgiven.
  2. Thy faith hath saved thee

As i see it, those who are forgiven are saved. To say “Thy sins are forgiven” is much the same as saying - you are saved.

“When we accept Jesus as our Savior, we receive salvation and forgiveness. But that’s not all. The Bible says we also receive justification, redemption, reconciliation, atonement, propitiation, and regeneration. Each of these theological terms expresses wonderful truths about the blessing we receive when Jesus becomes our Savior.”

It seems that “training” is related to the ongoing process of sanctification that the Lord desires throughout the life of a Christian, which is related to passages such as:

Rom.12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Phil.2:12 Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure.

2 Pet.3:18a But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

That is different from the past accomplished act of our being already saved:

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

2 Tim.1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Jude 1:3a Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eonian life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath eonian life.

2 Cor.5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Eph.2:4 But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

Eph.2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Rom.10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

1 Cor.15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures


#47

Origen, I asked you a while ago what is your atonement model, and IIRC you never answered. Did Jesus die because God needs someone to be punished for sin?


#48

Origen, “by which also you are saved” suggests an accomplished fact. However the Greek verb is not in a past tense. The verb is a present passive indicative. It ought to be translated as “by which you are being saved,” and that is exactly the way it IS translated in the ESV, the Diaglott, JB2013, LEB, and Young’s Literal Translation.

Salvation is a process—a life-long process!


#49

Correct. They were being saved by believing the gospel. But they had to be believing (continuous present tense) to maintain this salvation which they already had. Hence the “being saved” to correspond with “be believing”. But none of this denies they were saved yesterday if they believed, or saved today if they believed. In fact the verse confirms that. Which explains why so many translations renders it as the one i posted. The gospel is the power of God to salvation to all who believe it (Rom.1:16).

No one is denying this. Salvation is also a past accomplished event & a present possession to every one that has faith. As the long list of Scripture texts i posted proves.


#50

Some in your long list are irrelevant. There are only two—the ones in Ephesians 2 that indicate that we “have been saved.” (perfect passive participle) Here they are in their context:

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

It is my belief, and I think it obvious from the context, that Paul is here referring to Christ’s act concerning our salvation. His act of dying for our benefit was completed on the cross. So in that way, we “have been saved” so that we need not think that any works on our part are of any avail, apart from what Christ did for us. Christ did it all! But to appropriate what Christ did for us, we must avail ourselves through faith of God’s enabling grace, and thereby enter the door of salvation and continue in it throughout our lives. If we turn back, and live for ourselves again, His magnificent sacrifice will not benefit us.

However, it is not the case that we ourselves have been saved. If that were the case, then that condition would be permanent, and we could never be lost again—which, of course, is exactly what the Calvinists teach.

Here’s how Metropolitan Kallistos answered the question, “Are you saved?”