Hi, Blue Raja
I haven’t read all these posts, so please forgive me if I’m repeating anyone’s previous words. Scanning through the things you’ve said, I think you probably lack a basic understanding of the various doctrines of the Christian church regarding judgment. You sound like you come from an Arminian background. So did I, though a few years ago I’d never heard of Arminius. I’d heard of Calvin, but all I knew about him was that he was one of the reformers.
Briefly, Arminians believe (with various, erm, variations) that people determine their own destinies with regard to salvation. We choose freely whether to accept or to reject God’s free gift of salvation, offered through Christ Jesus. Arminians have been forced to add all sorts of embellishments to this doctrine to give a reasonable chance to people who have never heard the gospel, mentally incompetent folk, young children and infants who die before the (invented) “age of accountability,” & etc. & etc. In the view of the Arminian, God would love to save everyone; He loves every single person and desires intensely for each one to repent, BUT God will not abrogate our “free will” and therefore He is relegated to lose some of those He loves to hell, as He MUST condemn sinners who have not freely received the salvation offered through Jesus.
Calvinists believe (in many flavors of course) that God has chosen some people to be saved. He WILL save these people and “free will” can be, well, damned. God is sovereign and no one’s “free will” could possibly trump His free will to save these chosen ones, nor His free will to damn those He has chosen not to choose. God provisionally loves all people in this life, but when the unsaved die, that love ends. He will torment them in eternal hell with delight, as their “just” suffering underscores and illustrates His sovereign justice and hatred of sin.
So, the Arminian believes:
God loves all people
God desires to save all people
Some people will spend eternity separated from God (either in hell, or because they’ve been annihilated)
The Calvinist believes:
God loves some people
God desires to save those He loves
God WILL save those He loves.
The Arminian God is all loving and fails to save some of those He loves.
The Calvinist God is all powerful. He saves those He loves and damns those He hates.
In Calvinism, you really have no choice, so as Sonia pointed out, our preaching universalism doesn’t make any difference to God. He will do as He chooses. In Arminianism, it all boils down to us choosing life and God can’t do much for us either way.
That’s why I figure you’re Arminian – or at least you’ve been exposed to Arminianism and not so much to Calvinism.
Universalists believe the Calvinists are right. God is all powerful and can save whomever He wants to. With the Calvinist we affirm that He WILL save all those He loves. We believe the Arminians are also right. God loves all people and WILLS that all people should be saved. Both the Calvinists and the Arminians have irrefutable scripture for these doctrines I’ve mentioned. They are both right. The only thing they’re wrong about is the “death deadline.”
For centuries the church has taught that “the tree lies where it falls.” If you die unsaved, you will remain so for all eternity. There is scant scriptural support for this idea, however. Two or maybe three verses at the most (again, imo). I’m at a motel en-route back from my vacation, or I’d list them for you, but imo, they aren’t very convincing. I was literally shocked at the lack of scriptural support for a doctrine I had believed all my life had ample grounding in scripture. It just DOES NOT HAVE IT. Without our artificially imposed death deadline, God’s hands are no longer tied. He can have all the time He needs to persuade people, and He is very persuasive. I’m not talking about torturing people with literal or figurative flames either, but rather about changing hearts with patience and love, whatever it takes and however long it takes.
Now some universalists (often the more Calvinistic ones) believe that God unequivocally saves everyone more or less painlessly and quickly. I don’t think scripture supports this. You mention passages about God’s anger and His chastisement and you’re right (imo). God IS angry with the wicked, and He is NOT okay with the wicked remaining wicked. Moreover, while I do believe He can and will do all that He desires, I do NOT believe that even God can do anything in any other way than the “way it must be done.”
Logically, you can’t hang the siding on your house until you’ve built the walls. You’re not powerless to hang the siding, but you DO have to build the walls first. God cannot make free-willed, and righteous people without training them to freely choose that which is good and loving, from their own hearts. In order to do that, we must agree that it’s wrong to cause suffering to other people and to our Father in heaven and to ourselves. Some learn this lesson easier than others, and that is what hell (however you define it and whenever you experience it) is for. I’ve learned not to judge hurting parents of wayward children by BEING such a parent. I’ve learned not to judge drivers who drive badly by on occasion driving badly myself and suffering the consequences. I am no better than anyone else. I see this over and over. Perhaps Hitler (to use the perennial example) must learn that it is wrong to torture people, by literally feeling their pain. This is purgatorial universalism, and I believe scriptures uphold it.
Now as Jason pointed out, there is no way to explain this doctrine to you in a “nutshell,” but if you will take the time to seek God, search the scriptures, and contemplate for yourself, you’ll come to the conclusions you come to. No one else can make this journey for you, and it is a long one. BUT, if you want to be free from fear, there is no other way.
The good news is this. Jesus died to save sinners FROM THEIR SIN. (Not their sins, but their SIN – their slavery to sin.) He did not fail. As scripture says, He is the savior of the world. Sin leads to death. He died the death for us, and we can (in Him) also die this death to the world system and be spiritually raised with Him. THEN and only then can we learn to live by HIS life and not in the power of our own strength (of which we have none). It isn’t about fear; it’s about freedom. Sin’s penalty is death, but the gift of God is Life (And this is aionian life; that they might know You and Jesus Christ whom You have sent). Knowing Him is life. Until you know Him, you have no life – but everyone will eventually come to know Him.
It isn’t about knowing the right “facts,” but about knowing Jesus. You can’t skate along not seeking Him and expect to inherit eternal life – you have to follow Him. If you don’t follow Him, you won’t get to where He is going (until you change your mind and start following Him, which you eventually will do). As George MacDonald said, “No one ever GETS home without GOING home.”
Love, Cindy