Michael: John 1 says that “without Him nothing was made that was made,” but that seems (to me) to leave “what was made” an open question.
Tom: Within the specifics of the passage, it does. So what are your options? Whatever exists either (a) exists necessarily (and never came into existence) or (b) came into existence. Jo 1 and Col 1 make it explicit (will you agree?) that whatever fits into the latter category was brought into existence by the creative agency and will of God. So that leaves us (a), viz., non-divine entities or beings that exist necessarily (i.e., they’re not God and they were never brought into being by God). As a Christian, what would you suggest are possibilities for this latter category? Non-divine beings that exist necessarily outside the agency of God? I’d go on, but you said you don’t want to talk about process issues.
Michael: I’m more interested in examining what we can validly deduce from Col. 1. What’s meant by “all,” “the all,” or “all things” there.
Tom: I think the “all” means everything that exists which isn’t God. So it would be inclusive of both (a) and (b) above. All that exists derives its existence from God.
Michael: I’d also like to know if any of the “alls” specified {i.e. thrones, dominions, etc.) are feminine in gender. I could go in to personal reasons for feeling the burden of proof is on me here, but I’d rather not.
Tom: Those reasons would be by far the more crucial issue. You may need to share them if you want clarity here.
Michael: I’d like to know if you can help me prove (from our scriptures, to my own satisfaction) that personal spiritual entities couldn’t have been procreated by The Father and some Female Deity, without the direct creative participation of Christ (or The Logos), and that no Female Deity could have existed prior to (and independent of) Christ (or the Logos.)
Tom: Who are you letting inside your head, Michael? The difficulty with trying to find explicit proof within the Christian scriptures of the impossibility of some non-Christian claims is that some of those claims can be pulled out of a hat. They’re not going to turn up in the Bible in any shape or form. If you concede the ground to such claims and take the burden of producing explicit proof upon yourself, you’ll dig yourself into a hole out of which there is no escape. In other words, if you have to find e-x-p-l-i-c-i-t proof in the Bible that the Father didn’t procreate a race of spiritual beings with some female deity outside the agency of the Logos (OR ELSE concede the existence of such a race of beings) then you’re screwed.
Female deities as procreative agents alongside the Father independently of the Father’s own Logos? Where is this female deity supposed to have come from? Who created her? Does she exist necessarily? If not, how is she divine? If so, where the he** is the evidence for her existence? It WOULD help if you identify the sources of these issues. Otherwise, you’re asking us to help you shoot and score a bull’s eye in the dark.
Sounds like you need a serious worldview overhaul and not a few pat answers to quote from the Bible. I mean, if you’re struggling to answer whether or not the Father procreated a race of beings with some female deity independently of the Logos, then you’re in serious trouble Michael. I say this in love and concern. Find a discipleship program, commit to it, dig your heels in and get grounded.
For the record, the creation of “all that exists" apart from God occurs via the agency of the Son (Col. 1). That’s Paul’s vision. But your opponents who are seducing you won’t buy it. Anybody who can pull a female deity out of a rabbit’s hat and convince you that the burden of disproving such rubbish is on YOU isn’t likely to be disuaded by Col. 1. They have some serious sophistry going on.
Tom