Thank you for the responses, y’all. I really love the contributions. I’ll get back here and give a reply…??? (not making any exact promises, but soon I hope 
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Hi Jason and Cindy -
I read through your responses again. Thanks! I think I have grasped some of the things said, however, just for clarification, I wanted to ask the following questions specifically:
Let’s say there is a person who has heard about Jesus, but has not come to the place of belief or trust in Him. At the same time, however, s/he clearly sees the blackness and destructiveness of sin in his/her life, and desires to be saved from it. Will God save such a person from their sins, or at least begin the process of salvation in this lifetime ? And, will there be repercussions for this person because of their unbelief in Jesus in this lifetime?
EDIT: I think I’ve asked these same questions in different ways many times on these boards and elsewhere, but, for some reason, something isn’t sticking… so please bare with me.
I think, CH, that if this person sees his/her need and desires to be free from sin, that s/he has already begun that process, that journey, of salvation from sin. If s/he can’t seem to work up the ‘belief’ in God that others seem to have, then maybe Jesus still answers as He did the man who said, “Lord I believe; help my unbelief.” He healed the man’s son. Maybe that WAS the help. I’ll bet this hurting father did believe after seeing his son set free. 
If there are repercussions, I would expect those repercussions to be natural consequences. That is, if the lack of belief causes him/her not to obey or attempt to obey, then the progress will naturally be slower. The Jewish understanding of “believe” didn’t (I’m told) exactly coincide with our own western understanding of it. To them, “believe” and “obey” were twins. If you obey (or at least try your best to obey) then obviously you believe. And if you believe, then of course, you WILL obey to the extent of your ability. The wonderful thing about all this is that Father celebrates our tiny progress as a good and loving earthly mommy celebrates the tiny steps her baby makes toward growing up. “Look! Look! Did you see?! He’s following my finger with his eyes – you can see that, right? Isn’t he wonderful?!” So sweet, those new mommies – the good ones at least.
Tis true; God doesn’t judge us as though we have no difficulties. He already knows and takes into account all the legitimate excuses – and I’m not saying that to dismiss excuses.
Lewis (possibly following MacDonald here as he usually does) says that while God won’t be satisfied until His child can freely run, He is pleased with any progress she makes at all. MacDonald says it is something even to recognize the chains of our sins as poisoning and enslaving us, even if they seem to us to be gold; and that God loves us even when like the rich young synagogue ruler we turn away from trying to take even the first step up the mountain – but that on the other hand, while the mountain is important we aren’t supposed to live clinging to its surface and in fact we only would freeze and suffocate on its height without God changing our selves so that we can breathe and fly. (So we shouldn’t glory in climbing the mountain.)
The apostles themselves asked how, if it was difficult even for the young synagogue chief to be saved who like St. Paul honestly and faultlessly followed the Torah out of love for God, then how could anyone be saved? With mankind, Jesus answered, it’s impossible, but with God all things are possible. It isn’t about us earning our salvation – which I realize isn’t the question you’re asking, but I’m saying that in reassurance. God expects our cooperation, and will keep at us until He leads us to it, but we don’t earn His attention or His persistence by our cooperation first.
The repercussions are only about insisting on fondling our sins once all healing has been done and all excuses have been fairly made. That’s true about anyone, whether we’re Christian or not, and moreso for those of us who are already Christian because we’re supposed to know better! But the repercussions don’t mean God is giving up on us. It’s more like a physical therapist or trainer or sergeant major or martial-arts teacher not giving up, for love’s sake (and because they’re committed to being who they are), in getting us spiritually fit.
And that sort of thing typically starts now already. Similarly, God has already made significant progress with the person in the condition you described – He isn’t waiting to start the process of salvation from the blackness later, He has already gotten him or her to recognize the blackness and in principle to reject it. How many people don’t even intermittently desire yet to be saved from any sins they’re doing at all! – and God isn’t giving up on them either. The Persons have made the strongest possible covenant with themselves, which we with our sins cannot break, to bring us all home, even the 100th goat. (In the oldest illustrations the Good Shepherd is bringing home the last goat.) The Son by His death on the cross shows He’s still committed to keeping His side of the covenant with the Father, even to the point of letting sinners unjustly kill Him, thus paying for letting them (all of us) be children rather than mere puppets of omnipotent power even if that brings temporary real tragedy to the story.
It’s always better to make progress sooner rather than later in cooperating of course. Better for us, and better for the other people in contact with us. But God doesn’t wait to love us until we make progress.
Rather, He eternally loves us until we make progress, however long that takes.
George MacDonald wrote the following in “The Way” in Unspoken Sermons, Series 2:
Yep, thought I remembered that! – just couldn’t place it, thanks!
It’s quite stunning to discover just how much Lewis wasn’t kidding about MacD being his Teacher.
Thank you - each of you - for your responses. I’m thinking through them.
I love the picture too Cindy though I tend to think of myself as a shoat, as I think I’ve mentioned before. Now the scripture tells me that if anyone be in Christ he is a new creation the old is gone (goat) and the new has come (sheep). So I’m a sheep but my actions say otherwise so I feel like a goat (even a small one). Like Paul in Rom 7 I say thanks be to God and keep reading because there is better news about reconciliation to come. Nonetheless goatiness is still evident wherever I look.
Chris,
I read a metaphor in a fiction story a couple of days ago about being all wrapped up in chains. The padlock is cut, but we still have to shuck off those coils of metal. It can take time even to NOTICE them, we’ve been carrying them around for so long. And of course, we LIKE some of those chains. 
There’s a further factor, too, in shucking off those chains – one which I’ll be illustrating in one of the climactic scenes of SoJ, by the way.
So long as we pridefully insist on doing it ourselves, without any help, it doesn’t matter if we get one set of chains off: we’ve only enchained ourselves worse. (Lewis extrapolated this from MacD’s chain metaphor somewhere, though I don’t recall which book(s) Lewis did it in. Eustace’s dragon-peeling is related to that but not exactly the same thing.)
Very good point, Jason. Thanks! 
Jason what does SoJ mean? 
Cindy, I picture Wesly’s hymn " my chains fell of my heart was free I rose went forth and followed thee". Simple! (Tich) As per the meerkat add on the telly. If it’s not an add on US tv I will explain that it is a play on the word market with a puppet meerkat attempting to make it seem his sales pitch is simple which of course like most things it is not. ie read the small print! IMO the matter of losing the chains is a lifelong issue and it involves the continual provision of grace hence my by line below. The gift of righteousness (Jesus) busts the lock. Perhaps I am oversimplifying what this passage says but I do like the notion that we don’t even notice the chains. Terry Virgo of “New Frontiers” likens it to a soldier who is leaves the army. He still feels he should salute the officer as he walks out the gate but just remembers and says “so long captain see ya around.” This connects to the idea of no longer being a slave to sin. 
ChrisB - I think SoJ means “Song of Justice” if my memory serves me well.
It seems to me that many, if not most of us, die prematurely in this process. This is particularly worrying to me if this life is all we have. The people who mean the most to me are bound by these chains, and even if they were to live a reasonably long life, I have no hope that they will even begin the process of disentangling themselves from sin… unless, of course, there is some radical pauline-like intervention by God. It is because of this I dread the notion that this life is all that we have, and that we must fully repent of all of our sins before the clock strikes 12. That is just not happening.
Personally witnessing the people whom I love suffering the devastating consequences of their sin is gut-wrenching. I loathe the thought that they will then face eternal torture when they die, and I fail to see the purpose of life if this is the case. Of course, none of this is what you were asserting, but, I write this in contemplation of the belief some hold that we must lose these chains before death meets us.
Also, Jason, re: Eustace dragon-peeling and trying to shuck off our chains ourselves…
At the Calvinist church I was previously affiliated with, there was strong preaching on the doctrine of regeneration and the need to be born-again - which was described as this big event where upon believing the Gospel, God puts His Spirit within the believer, who is immediately set free from the power of sin, and given a new heart of flesh that desires to please God, and keep His commandments. In this circle, a person was not considered “saved” until s/he had this miraculous conversion experience, evidenced by a changed life, particularly love for God, and freedom from previous entanglements with sin.
The impact this had on me, was that I prayed almost every day for quite a few years for this “conversion experience” so that I would be free from the chains of my sin. Of course, nothing happened. Today, I sit back and think - man, this makes no sense, I am responsible for my own choices and actions, and I am the only one who has the power to change my life. I can’t just sit around waiting for God to change me. I have found this mind-set (primarily in taking responsibility for my actions) to be more effective in actually helping me to make right choices. My attitude is more like - sin is hurting other people, and it is hurting myself. I hate that I am causing others and myself pain. I am responsible for the choices I make. I want to make things right. Therefore, I will make things right.
I don’t think it makes any sense to continue praying and waiting around for God to change things in my life that I am fully capable of changing. Also, given that I do not yet have any particular belief in Jesus, it is difficult to depend on/trust in this Jesus for help. It’s not that I think I can set myself free from all sin on my own. But, whatever I think I can do, I think I should do. Do you think this is dragon-peeling and that it doesn’t matter if I shuck off some chains on my own? --not being rude here. This is a legit question.
Wow! What a mixture of Calvanistic crap and Arminian nonsense all mixed up together! Sorry to be blunt. I get really upset that people imbibe this junk from the churches they go to. It’s one of the problems of church hopping. One can pick up bad stuff and add it to previously imbibed bad stuff and get, well, stuffed. 
So much that as Paul says, sounds Godly but is of the flesh and profits nothing. Jesus has it covered mate so relax and stop fretting or leaping about to some jerks tune who happens to have a mic in his hand. Sorry again about the rhetoric I’ll go and have a glass of cold water and cool off!
ChrisB - I’m no longer at these churches, thankfully. I guess my first post was more about me venting my frustrations over certain belief systems. The second post was… well a legit question to Jason for clarification on what he meant in a previous post.
Yep.
It’s still gut-wrenching to me, even when I have ultimate hope for them. The more I love someone the more gut-wrenching it is to me, even if morally they’re doing pretty well but are currently being deprived of Christian belief!
But of course how much moreso does the gut wrench when hopelessness is factored in. 
I certainly don’t want to decry that (so to speak).
I’ll have to get back with you a little later on your next post; busy at ‘work’ work this morning.
Well obviously I was talking a lot about human responsibility, too. The key point in what I was warning about wasn’t human responsibility in cooperation, but trying to do it ourselves without any help. That isn’t cooperative responsibility.
Oh, certainly, it wouldn’t make sense to look for help from something you can’t quite or don’t believe exists! That isn’t pridefully trying to do it without any help. The attitude involved (I mean the attitude I was warning about, not your attitude) is the problem, not a question of belief about facts.
Certainly, yes, that isn’t useless dragon-peeling. 
The wrong attitude would be something like, “Go away, Jian, I resent you trying to help me, I’m going to do this myself without you, me me me me me.” 
That goes waaaaay beyond taking personal responsibility, and striving for personal growth in strength and capabilities, into uncooperation.
Remember how CoJ ends: “I had been given my opportunities even to fight, to make my contributions. Given opportunities, given gifts – given everything. And I still wanted to take. …] Was I grateful? Did I receive my new opportunities, acting upon them? No. I was resentful. And I took those new opportunities, acting upon them. And that makes all the difference.”
Which is also Israel’s story in a nutshell: even when they aren’t resentful for their given opportunities, they still have a bad habit of wanting to take those opportunities instead of receiving them. And that makes all the difference in how they (and we, where Israel represents all of us) act upon those opportunities.
(Relatedly, it is by no accident at all that I named “Portunista” a name-form variation of Spanish ‘opportunista’, opportunist. She has to learn to be a good opportunist instead of a bad one. 
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Note: I’ve ported the subsequent CoJ discussion posts over to the CoJ discussion thread, starting here.