The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Is God Violent In Hell? Does That Influence Us?—Cavanaugh

Zombie’s humour is sending me over the clef:laughing: :laughing:

Keep it up…I’m taking notes.

Honestly, I basically ignore the book of Revelation. Its imagery can be interpreted in so many and varied ways that I would never base any doctrine on a passage therein. In fact, not even a single verse of the book of Revelation is ever read during any Orthodox liturgy.

That said, the book about Revelation that I like the best was Eugenio Corsini’s The Apocalypse: The Perennial Revelation of Jesus Christ. His overall thesis is that the book of Revelation is about Jesus Christ’s First Coming, not His Second Coming. Thus there is no information about the future or about post-mortem sufferings in the book of Revelation. Of course, any interpretation of the book of Revelation is uncertain, to say the least.

Geoffrey said:

Oh Yea! :exclamation: :exclamation: :smiley:

Do you ignore it as well? If so, why?

No. Preterists understand the book of Revelation to be concerned mainly with the fall of Jerusalem in A. D. 70 (and the forty years leading up to it). I think the book of Revelation is concerned mainly with Christ’s death, resurrection, ascension, and enthronement in A. D. 30 (and the centuries leading up to it).

I think the book of Revelation is basically a much-expanded version of Christ’s Olivet discourse. I am convinced that Christ’s Olivet discourse was 100% fulfilled when the Holy Spirit descended upon the upper room in Acts 2. I therefore think it likely that the book of Revelation was 100% fulfilled by the same time.

I think one needs to read Acts and the Epistles for information on the Second Coming.

No. Actually I consider all scripture fulfilled, but I appreciate the candor of those who will admit that Revelation does not fit into their current belief system. FWIW, Luther was on the fence about Revelation and some other books. I believe Revelation was about the story of Christ dealing with Israel.

Your take is interesting, but the preterist view of revelation may be not so pigeon holed.

The fulfilment of God’s work with His creation, as in reconciliation, was accomplished through Christ and His dying, and resurrection. And Gods final dealing with the old covenant Israel, can be witnessed historically in what is called the Jewish wars and the fall of Jerusalem. While I agree that revelation is 100 % fulfilled, it is Israel, that was being spoken of, and by prophesy, the rest of us, (humanity) is or was included.

Are you either a partial or full Preterist, by the way? If so, which one?

It never occurred to me, but one could theroically blend some of the theological positions here. For example:

The optimistic Orthodox view of Geoffrey
The Full Pretestist view of Davo
My Holy Fool theology and P-Zombie philosophy

I really don’t know what that would look like. But it would be interesting :exclamation: :laughing:

HFPZ said:

There you go! :smiley:

If god is violent in hell and if a god actually created a hell, he would definitely be a vile demiurge.

Such a place would be demonstrably immoral and only those who have sold their moral soul to Satan would follow any god who would create or use such a place.