The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Jesus was mean and harsh

Theology Christology
#21

Pilgrim, Andre,

I’m NOT convinced there is an “elephant in the room” nor am I convinced it’s “Orwellian … to speak of Jesus as being loving and kind” just because the gospels also give a glance of Jesus’ more ornery side… don’t forget, he was “a prophet” Israel’s prophet, and by all accounts Israel’s prophets had a fierce reputation for calling how it was and THAT at times entailed strong words and actions.

THAT in no way negates the genuine care and concern he had for his people and consequently the grace that was to flow from the redemption he secured… he knew it would cost him everything, LITTLE WONDER then on occasion he shot from the hips.

#22

Maybe I’m looking through a lens forged in my earlier years. Where and when I grew up Christianity was a fearful thing to me, in part I believe because I felt like an outsider (my family weren’t "church people). The whole thing was unfamiliar and threatening.

#23

I think we all have our lens that have shaped how we view things and oft times these have been to our detriment. Fortunately God sees us clearly and has no issue with us; religianity however begs to differ.

#24

Remember that Jesus also wept over the same people.

#25

There is a different between being harsh for the sake of being harsh versus being hard for a purpose. Some people need the fear of God in them to change their minds. Others a gentle suggestion. Typically self-righteous people need something stronger to get them to rethink their positions. This is why the Pharisees had the most harsh rebukes and sinners, who knew they were sinners had little to no rebuke and were given grace. Yes, Jesus was harsh sometimes and I thank God that he is passionate enough to be that way to us.

#26

I seem to remember both G. K. Chesterton and C. S. Lewis writing the same thing. I wish I had the quotes handy.

#27

Understanding the context of the warnings Jesus spoke is important. At first we hear those warnings in the context of the false teachings religious organizations have promoted for centuries- against a twisted backdrop of God eventually destroying or eternally tormenting almost everyone.

When heard in the context of a reproof to religious hypocrites and rulers, against a backdrop(overall perspective) of God eventually redeeming, reconciling and restoring everyone who ever lived, along with the entire creation- the harshness and fearsome aspect of Jesus begins to evolve into something else entirely.

Jesus taught, essentially, that we were to love God with all our hearts, expressed through loving our neighbor as ourselves. His warnings were for those who prey upon others, manipulate others, ignore the needs of others. Those who walk in the love of God do not need to fear those warnings, but still the warnings are necessary even for those who walk in that love, because we all need to watch out for the tendency to fall into self-centeredness.

There is a consequence for rejecting the love of God. It is a consequence sufferred in the heart, soul and mind of the violator, in various ways. Jesus is still praying tho, “Forgive them Father, they don’t know what they are doing”, and for those who experience that forgiveness, the healing has already begun. Eventually all will be healed, “For every knee shall bow, whether in heaven, or on earth or under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

#28

A True Name

The evil reputation is heaped
on his true name
for ills done by so-called Christians
falsely in it
while the world seeks glory
in names that cannot give it
yet among them some,
unknowing,
live it
while among the so-called
are so few
who know the name
and live it too.
the One in whom
all of them
exist
and have their being
knows their blindness
and their seeing
and shows them love
their souls
now freeing
by one who came,
please understand,
not just in name
but heart in hand
to die for all
and all redeem.
when time is done
the ages through
and eternity rushes in on you
in fire and light
as darkness flees
and sin forgotten
beneath the seas of love,
forgiveness through and through
History,
The whole creation singing of
An ever unfolding glory-
Behold, I am making all things new!
Rejoice!
The Lamb!
His name is true!

#29

I’ve been reading the Book of Luke and have a few of the same questions that you brought up a few years ago. I’ve recently decided to follow Jesus, but I’m trying to understand where he is coming from in a couple of these chapters.

What did you end up deciding? I hope that you found the answers you were looking for.

#31

God is trans-rational. Like humans He is filled with a clash of contradictions or paradoxes. It’s a holding together of extreme opposites. It’s a fused together beauty that holds opposites together in tension like we should do in ourselves. Christ is human and divine, God is both 3 and 1. Majestic yet meek. Masculine yet feminine. Merciful yet just. Loves good hates evil. Christ is equal to God yet submitted to God. Transcendent yet imminent. It’s a unity in diversity and this indeed reflects Reality in the universe in which we live. This should be expected for one of the signs of a true revelation from God is that it transcends the finite and selfish nature of man and His reasoning abilities. It’s a true miracle attesting to the truth of Christianity. The natural tendency of human reason is to reject Divine Revelation because of his finite and limited understanding. But once the duality of man’s thinking is broken opposites come together and he is ushered into the circle of love. The understanding and the paradoxes come together in a happy relationship called faith. In a happy love affair self-love transcends itself. A person who has this passionate desire of faith finds his reason fulfilled as he believes that which surpasses human understanding. Far from disproving Christianity, the paradoxes of the God confirm His supernatural accuracy. As Thomas Aquinas says, the fact that humans can come to believe is the greatest of miracles. The natural tendency of man to disbelieve is a confirmation of the truth of the revelation. We should expect a miraculous revelation of God to be impossible to understand, and difficult to believe.

As G.K. Chesterton states:

The ordinary man has always been sane because the ordinary man has always been a mystic. He has permitted the twilight. He has always had one foot in earth and the other in fairyland. He has always left himself free to doubt his gods; but (unlike the agnostic of to-day) free also to believe in them. He has always cared more for truth than for consistency. If he saw two truths that seemed to contradict each other, he would take the two truths and the contradiction along with them. His spiritual sight is stereoscopic, like his physical sight: he sees two different pictures at once and yet sees all the better for that. Thus he has always believed that there was such a thing as fate, but such a thing as free will also. Thus he believed that children were indeed the kingdom of heaven, but nevertheless ought to be obedient to the kingdom of earth. He admired youth because it was young and age because it was not. It is exactly this balance of apparent contradictions that has been the whole buoyancy of the healthy man. The whole secret of mysticism is this: that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid. The determinist makes the theory of causation quite clear, and then finds that he cannot say “if you please” to the housemaid. The Christian permits free will to remain a sacred mystery; but because of this his relations with the housemaid become of a sparkling and crystal clearness. He puts the seed of dogma in a central darkness; but it branches forth in all directions with abounding natural health. As we have taken the circle as the symbol of reason and madness, we may very well take the cross as the symbol at once of mystery and of health. Buddhism is centripetal, but Christianity is centrifugal: it breaks out. For the circle is perfect and infinite in its nature; but it is fixed for ever in its size; it can never be larger or smaller. But the cross, though it has at its heart a collision and a contradiction, can extend its four arms for ever without altering its shape. Because it has a paradox in its centre it can grow without changing. The circle returns upon itself and is bound. The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travellers.