The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Justice in the Qur'an compared to the Bible

Theology
#41

That make sense, Dick. When having a discussion with a Muslim, I find it frustrating, trying to convince him that no, I do NOT believe Jesus to be the offspring of a sexual union between God the Father and Mary, and that I do not worship Mary. Some of them get embarrassingly graphic concerning the first and their great objections to it. Understandable as I also find it highly objectionable, too. Of this, however, I am always unsuccessful at convincing them. They will NOT believe that I (and also WE) do NOT believe this offensive “doctrine”. Maybe it will be helpful to be able to point this out, that you’ve explained.

I confess that, while I haven’t SAID it, I’ve thought they were just being belligerent and taking this idea of Jesus being God’s Son to the ridiculously physical realm because they WANTED to believe that we believe such a ridiculous idea. But I guess they’re just like us. They have their filters on, and they literally CAN’T hear anything that is contrary to what they “know.”

Thanks for your insight, Dick :smiley:

Love, Cindy

#42

That’s great Cindy -

love

Dick :slight_smile:

#43

Great points, Cindy.

But there’s another factor, too, maybe. For a muslim looking at Christianity, they are dealing with a constantly moving target. Roman Catholics and some of the orthodox churches do venerate and pray to Mary and their saints, even if they themselves do not consider such veneration and prayers to be the same thing as worship, which they reserve only for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Throw in the hundreds, if not thousands, of other Christian denominations with myriad degrees of difference and similarity, and Christianity is a pretty confusing jumble for non-believing outsiders to wrap their minds around. So, it’s little wonder that a muslim would have difficulty understanding what we… as individuals… do or do not believe.

#44

That’s true Andy –

And Islam is a myriad of sects too. The traditional number is 72 – but I’m sure there are more than this in reality. It is so sad that the Wahabbis and the Muslim Brotherhood have such an influence today – mainly because they have the funds from oil; they want to eradicate variety through force. Many Sufi Muslims venerate their saints and pray to them and do on pilgrimage to their shrines in the same manner as Catholics and Orthodox Christians too, and unlike the grim Wahabbis of Saudi Arabia they believe in worshipping God through beautiful music and beautiful architecture, because God is beautiful. 30% of Muslims in the UK are Sufi refugees from Pakistan and Bangladesh fleeing the same wave of Wahabbi influenced persecution that has engulfed the Christians there.

Since there is a diversity of Muslims I think it’s best to listen to what the specific Muslim you are speaking to believes – its’ good to listen rather than assume and its god to ask them t listen rather henna assume too. If the form of Islam they practice bears the stamp of the Wahabbis then you probably will be talking to a person of intolerant mindset who is certain they believe the right things about a God who is overwhelmingly powerful and that you are just wrong about everything. If you are talking to a Sufi they will probably believe in God who draws close in compassionate love; the Friend to whom human beings can be friends. And they may well believe in Peace with all.

And Cindy – do let us all know how you get on explaining the theory about the historical origins of the view of the Trinity in the Quran; I’m completely convinced by the explanation I’ve given and I know some Muslim scholars are too – but they tend to be the sort of Muslim scholars who live in the West and are free to speak their minds.

Love to all

Dick

#45

Hi, Dick

I will do that – I’m not in any conversations with Muslims at the moment. Usually it comes about when someone initiates a conversation at my blog. And since I haven’t been talking much about Islam recently . . . . However it’s always good to know for the next time. :wink:

Love, Cindy

#46

Well - bloggers tend to be real right nutters :laughing: (are we bloggers? does that include us?)

love

Dick :laughing: :laughing:

#47

I hope we all pray for Malala Yousufzai – the enormously courageous, intelligent and courageous young Muslim girl from Pakistan who took on the Taliban with her blog and is critical in hospital after they shot her. See -

bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19908409

Such great courage in one so young is humbling, inspirational and hopeful.