The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Justified/sanctified/ransomed by the cross, or...?

Part of this post contains things I wrote to paidion in my other recent thread.

Heb 10:10
And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Can an unsanctified person go to heaven? I’m pretty sure most Christians including you would say no. Here the Hebraist says he and his audience had been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus. In other words, they were sanctified through Jesus’ voluntary death. If (a) people need to be sanctified to go to heaven, and (b) people are sanctified through “the offering of the body of Jesus” (i.e. Jesus’ death), then © the offering of Jesus’ body was necessary for people to go to heaven.

Rom 5:9
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

The logic here is basically the same as Heb 10:10. Can a person who is not justified go to heaven? Once again, I’m pretty sure most Christians including you would say no. (a) If people need to be justified to go to heaven, and (b) people are justified by Jesus’ blood (i.e. Jesus’ death), then © Jesus’ death was necessary for people to go to heaven.

Heb 9:22
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Paidion challenged my belief that this taught Jesus had to die for people to go to to heaven by saying the word translated “forgiveness” also means “leaving”/“forsaking”. But even with paidion’s novel translation Jesus would have had to die for people to go to heaven! According to most Christians, a person who doesn’t “leave” his sins can’t go to heaven. (a) If people need to leave their sins to go to heaven, and (b) without the shedding of blood people can’t leave their sins, then © Jesus’ blood needed to be shed (i.e. Jesus had to die) for people to go to heaven.

1 Peter 1:18-19
Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

This seems to be teaching basically the same thing as the other three texts: if Jesus didn’t die, people couldn’t go to heaven.

Bob asked me why I even think people go to heaven. Respectfully, I’d rather not get sidetracked debating whether the immortal bodies of saved people spend eternity in heaven or on a renewed earth. I’m a preterist, I think the former; many on this forum are futurists who think the latter.

Most people on this forum are purgatorial universalists (PUs). They think people will be punished (or as Paidion says, “corrected”) postmortem in hell unless or until they’re perfect. What exactly takes place during this punishment takes place, I have no idea. My questions are:

If Jesus’ death justifies/sanctifies/ransoms/purifies the Christian, why does the imperfect Christian get punished? It doesn’t make sense to speak of a justified/ransomed person who needed to be punished. Perhaps “imperfect Christian” is an oxymoron?

If a person needs to have perfect works (i.e. not do any of the things prohibited in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10?) to go to heaven, then why did Jesus have to die? Couldn’t God have just punished people until all desire to do any of the things listed in 1 Cor 6:9-10 was permanently removed from their soul without Jesus dying on a cross?

No, wait. To be saved, I only read:

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31), and “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” (Rom. 10:13).

Of course, the Scriptures warn about us “forgetting” and “stumbling”:

2 Peter 1:7-11
7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, FORGETTING that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never STUMBLE,
11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We Christians have already had a bath; we may stumble in the world; when we do, we need to just wash our feet (John 13:10, 1 Cor. 6:9-13).

Qaz, don’t forget your true identity is that you are now in Jesus (Col. 3:3).