To save a bit of time for listeners in a hurry and wanting to move through topic points quickly:
0 to 5:18, the guest interviewer (Tony Jones) is introduced (Doug Pagitt was off doing missionary evangelism in Guatemala) and he and the program director (John Musik?) chat for a while. Nothing theological, just friends catching up.
5:18 to 7:45, Tony explains he’ll be discussing RB’s Love Wins, and talks a bit about Rob’s life and ministry before LW. (But no theological details or discussion per se.)
7:45 to 12:00, Tony introduces the book–no details about the book, but he goes into some detail about the history of the controversy up to this point. Some things here I hadn’t known about. (Zondervan dropped Rob last year despite a two-book contract, claims they didn’t know what he was writing, but also says if they had known they still would have dropped him anyway. Martin Bashir turns out to have attended Tim Keller’s church–which surprised me because he sounded rather more like a sceptical non-Christian in the interview.)
12:00 to 13:20, back from the commercial break, introducing KDR.
13:20, the interview with KDR actually begins.
13:47 to 16:20, KDR discusses difference between ‘popular’ notions of universalism and Christian universalism (broadly speaking).
16:20 to 18:20, KDR discusses Calv problems (generally) with CU, focusing mostly on faculty at Calvin College. Not much detail here (probably due to his focus on CC where people aren’t saying much yet. He thinks some of the faculty actually agree with him but can’t say so for fear of losing jobs!)
18:20 to 19:00, Tony seems to introduce the question of whether CU really is the Next Big Theological Debate among Christians and what kind of staying power it will have as such; but then Tony shifts back to a prior topic (probably because it has some relevance to how big and longstanding the controversy is likely to be)…
19:00 to 20:50, …namely, KDR’s impression that quite a few evangelical Christian scholars are already universalists or lean strongly that way (but can’t say so for job security purposes). KDR talks about this a little more, particularly from a perspective of personal ministry. (Hearing this reminded me of stories indicating a substantial number of Jewish leaders in the first several Christian centuries were actually secretly Christian but were afraid to say so. )
21:49 to 26:04, back from commercial to the interview, Tony brings up the topic of free will in regard to universalism. KDR talks about why (from a scriptural standpoint) he accepts human free will as well as the importance of God’s sovereignty. (I thought this section was pretty good.)
26:05 to 29:47, Tony segues from this topic into the question of whether there is a difference between Keith and Rob on the question of whether anyone at all suffers punishment from God (i.e. is in hell per se) post-mortem. But the topic, when Keith picks it up, seems to be more about whether or not Rob acknowledges the possibility that some people may forever reject God. Keith thinks Rob acknowledges this as a possibility in passing, but says this isn’t enough to keep Rob out of the universalist camp. Tony comes back to the topic from the standpoint of ultra-universalism (i.e. no one will reject God at all once Jesus fully reveals Himself). I think Keith is trying to answer along the lines of ‘God will keep persisting until He gets it done’, thus even a never-ending resistance (even if that happened) could still involve Christian universalism (which by the way is something I’ve often said myself); but the implication also seems to be that Keith expects God to pull out all the stops and get it done faster than human free will would otherwise allow. (Which doesn’t square well with Keith’s affirmation of human free will, but he isn’t entirely clear here what he’s talking about. Tony certainly is talking about ultra-u though.)
29:47 to 31:10, Tony (somehow?) segues from this to the topic of whether CU denudes Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection of their power. Keith: “That idea has to be stomped right out.” No CU he knows of believes that for a moment; rather, that CU maximally affirms the power of the death and resurrection of Christ! (My favorite part of KDR’s interview. )
31:10 to 33:25, Tony next brings up the complaint from some people that any attempt to say what happens after death is pure speculation and shouldn’t be done. Keith says he’d be glad to consider it speculation if non-universalists would hold their positions the same way. But he also thinks CU makes the most theological sense and the most sense of scripture, and is pretty confident about that. He believes CU also helps people face issues in life with “hope and courage”.
That ends the interview with Keith De Rose.
37:47 to 43:00, after the commercial break and bumper (explaining why Doug is out of country and what the show is about and who was on and who is coming up next), Tony goes into his “You Gotta Be Kidding Me” commentary (which is usually a grab-bag of topics but which focuses on Rob Bell and his book for this show.) The topic is aimed against John Piper’s “Farewell Rob Bell” tweet (which ironically helped ensure #1 Amazon sales shortly afterward), and the question he discusses is, “Who gets to determine orthodoxy?” Apostolic period, Patristic period (pre-Nicea), Counciliar period, 1054 Catholic Schism, Protestant Reformation competition. His thrust seems to be that modern Protestants of all people shouldn’t be so quick to ascribe what amounts to papal/magisterial authority to delineate orthodoxy to any person or group of people. (But he doesn’t actually develop this line of thought much, other than to promote Rob’s upcoming lecture in town the following night, which they’ve done two or three times already in this half of the show.)
That ends the first mp3.