I have just been reviewing Bob Everly’s book again " End of the ages - The abolition of hell". Bob considers that the LF is a place of correction, with which I agree, however, it is not eternal and will be desposed of when it’s job is complete. It seems to me that the disposal of the LF according to Bob means it will be thrown into the LF - is this not a paradox? I have be thinking for a while that the LF is rather an attribute of God. “Our God is a consuming fire” This means the LF is eternal because God is eternal, thus though it’s job appears to be done in respect of correction when every knee bends, God remains a consuming fire as that is an aspect of His nature. So, is the LF as described a place which could also be understood as an encounter with Judge Jesus the Christ which may well be a very painful experience? I tend to think about how the resurrected Jesus confronted Thomas - does this give us a picture of the unbeliever facing judgment and the nature thereof? In addition is our meeting with Jesus more likely to be dealt with on a resurrected human to human level rather than having cope with the full Glory of God up front? Could that be one of the reasons God has made The Lord Jesus our judge?
Interesting thoughts, Chris. I agree in that I believe God IS the LoF. And that it will “burn” until all the bad stuff - the stuff that can and ought to burn, is consumed. I also see a parallel here with the Bronze Laver of the Tabernacle (later called a Sea when Solomon built one much larger for the Temple inner court). Made of bronze mirrors – or the first one was at any rate. Yes, I think there are many parallels there. 
But I hadn’t thought of Jesus being our judge because the judgment might be more human, understandable, gentle, merciful, etc. coming from a human being (who is God). Intriguing idea. I’ll be interested to hear what others have to say!
Hey Chris… did you read my further discussions on the LOF with Puddy that followed on from your question over HERE?
Thanks Ciindy and Davao, this thing has been buzzing around in my head for a while. I did not respond Davao cos I did not know anything about pantelism as such an the link did not seem to work. I think I have a Handel on it now though perhaps not deep understanding. I will, like Cindy watch for more input. I fly out to UK and will be with our daughter for Five months but will have access most of the time and hopefully some time to think and pray some more too.
Well! This is new to me! Though I am well familiar with the passage that says our God is a consuming fire, I have never before heard of the idea that God is the Lake of Fire! Thank you, Chris, for bringing this up. I will certainly be considering it. Is there any other passage of Scripture of which you are aware that suggests this?
Yes, the Bible describes God as fire.
Deuteronomy 4:24, For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
Deuteronomy 9:3, Know therefore today that it is the LORD your God who is crossing over before you as a consuming fire. He will destroy them and He will subdue them before you, so that you may drive them out and destroy them quickly, just as the LORD has spoken to you.
Hebrews 12:29, For our God is a consuming fire.
Yes, fire is depicted as being used in judgment and punishment.
Mark 9:49, For everyone will be salted with fire.
1 Corinthians 3:13, Each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
1 Corinthians 3:15,** If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.**
As to the painful experience of punishment in the lake of fire, 1 Corinthians 3:15 does specifically mention loss suffered, presumably as a result of the saving treatment through fire.
Finally, I think it indeed is Jesus who metes out the judgment and punishment, as stated in John 5:26-27 and John 5:30, and as implied in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28.
John 5:26-27,** For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.**
John 5:30, I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
1 Corinthians 15:22-28, For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
I can’t think of anything else in the Bible which directly says this Piadon but in general I thought it an aspect that does have merit for pondering! Just to make it more of a conundrum consider the burning bush, so God can be a fire which does not consume also. Maybe we can meditate on these issues without a full resolution since His ways are higher than ours and we can share thoughts which may bring light, yes?
Incala, is there correction or just punishment? I think that because Jesus was so much a friend of sinners and because He does not change then he always will be. Robin Parry (Gregory MacDonald) in his book The Evangelical Universalist seems to consider that some excersise of punishment will coexist with correction. I guess that this occurred also when we brought up our kids and such issues arose as they always do, but by far, our love for them made correction the overwhelming objective. Jesus talked abut the Fatherhood of God in the sermon on the mount. How much more will your Father in Heaven give good gifts…selah! Kind regards Chris
I think it is corrective punishment. A main message of 1 Corinthians 3 is that each person is metaphorically a building, which will be judged on the day. Some persons, i.e., buildings, are flawed. Something of them must be corrected and that correction will be accomplished by fire. The correction will create a loss, but a beneficial loss, because what is lost was flawed. The result is that by fire, people will be saved.
The result is that by fire, people will be saved.
Is saved quite the right word? Do you have a different contex in mind?
I think saved is the right word. It’s the same word used in 1 Corinthians 3:15, “If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”
Nice to see you, Chris! Love your new avatar. 
Well I guess my starting point would to first be that the like of fire is a symbol and is the second death, which if it is to have any relatable understanding must be related to the nature of death and it’s effects as it is now, including the fact that death will be defeated and destroyed in the end, death will die and go into non-existence (and so decay and the power of non-being will be the only thing that ceases to exist as all and brought out and beyond death). Death is in it’s ultimate essence the unmaking, dissolution and the move towards non-being, which would be it’s ultimate effect if God didn’t work to rescue, restore and bring to completion all things through Christ, but as a result death is a correct way therefore to describe the whole process of movement away from union with God, and the true life and being, of a person’s true humanity and person in participation with Jesus, our meaning, nature and being, created by God the Father in the image of the Word (who is the image of God in incarnate form) through the Word so that, through the Word union with the Word that created us we might come to grow into our true nature expressing and partaking in the life and nature of God and come to the knowledge of God the Father, through the grace, that is by the Spirit, so come to find and know our unique, beautiful and diverse humanity and personality in union with God and the Church, and find our real self and being in His Being. So the movement away from communion with Him is to be in movement away from true existence, being and life, and turn from light to darkness and to where things are failing apart, in decay and corruption, which is often manifested in things called sins, but are outward signs of this deeper infection, spreading outwards effecting and twisting relationships and all human activity both between each other, towards God, and towards creation, bring it’s power to create strange twists, perversions and bring collapse even to the things we make and create, so beauty loses transcendence, no longer pointing beyond itself but inwards and becomes part of the decay and corruption, so that even in everyday life in such things as food and clothing, the process of death begins to degrade the true nature of everything. People cook and eat for pleasure or even worse without regard for substance, and dress for selfish effect without honourable reasons and ignoring it’s cost to others. Seeing this and it’s role in the world is to see the many ways we refuse to come into the light and love darkness instead, staying away from coming into full life and being, and instead staying with the very thing that mars and unmakes us.
The second death must therefore be of a nature that is the same the first, and the destructive image of the lake of fire is the very destructive nature of death brought into sharp relief and awareness, the darkness parts of life and being and the destruction of death is demonstrated as I see it there, with the verdict remaining the same as revealed in opening of John’s Gospel, in 3:19-20:
‘This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of the light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear their deeds will be exposed.’
It remains the same, the judgement rendered through Jesus’ ministry, and through the cross, death and resurrection of the Lord, that is the same restoring and reconciling judgement calling people to be reconciled and healed and through them the healing and restoring of the whole world that is bring brought to completion, it won’t be added to with a new negative judgement I think. The difference that is illustrated is that the self-delusion and the ability to hide in the darkness of make-believe and secrecy indicated above will no longer be possible when the One who is Love and Truth appears and all creation is filled to overflowing with His glory as He restores all the creation He loves. In the Presence of His Love, the One who is Truth, there will be no possibly of hiding from the Light anymore, and as this image in Revelation at least in part suggests as I take it, their deeds and more deeply, the very nature of death that has affected them will be exposed, and there will be no possibly to hide from it in self-delusion and colluding with the deception of death, there will be no more darkness to hide the nature of death from themselves anymore and what it has and is doing to them, and will understand will full clarity, where His light will shine as it does already now for those who start to stop hiding, to shine not only on the symptoms of death, but it’s root, and so turn from it in repentance and a broken spirit and accept the forgiveness and love that He holds out and be healed and reconciled as they embrace the saving judgement of God, and enter into real life and reality in union with God, leaving the toxic infections of death and finding real life. Forgiveness and the ransom in Christ is the cure and deliverance from death and the sin it brings, already given by God and made clear even to those who have turned from much of their humanity currently throughout this age, and will come to know what they have run and hide from to their own hurt all this time as there will be no more hiding from the truth, and in that truth in which the destruction of death is brought into full clarity, and are see the One who has identified with them and their death to receive His Life and their own true nature in Him, are drawn and persuaded by His love as He continues to reach and be with them into confession and repentance to walk in the light that is found in Christ and communion with the rest of humanity, cleansed through the blood and life of Jesus the Messiah from all sin and death, and restored to full and immortal life and being in Him, sharing in His Life as He does our humanity (per 1 John 1:7-9).
It is the same rescue as now, that is bring brought to full completion when the new creation began in the Resurrection is brought to completion at His appearance in my understanding, and stands in continuity as well as discontinuity with the current situation rather then something new or a different kind of judgement the one already done in the Cross and the Resurrection, and what is brought now as the people accept the saving judgement of Jesus’ Lordship are the forgiveness God has already given and accept and partake in the ransom and rescue from death and partake in the new Life, the very life of God Himself He has released and opened to the whole of humanity and the rescue of the whole universe that this will bring, but here being brought to completion. It is as I see it, the reason for the resurrection of the wicked, to bring them into the full Resurrection and draw all people to Himself.
Yes Cindy thats me trying to look wise! Hmmm. Anyway just landed in London and jet lagged and trying to stay awake to get in the local groove ASAP. Brain can’t take in anything much will read later.
Yeah, you’ve kind of got that Jimmy Stewart “It’s a Wonderful Life” expression going on there. 
Hi Chris,
I too have thought that the lake of the fire and the brimstone might be picturing the fiery presence of God, especially because Rev 14 pictures the lake of fire being surrounded by the Lamb and the angels. What surrounds the throne of God? The lamb and the angels. So it could be that this is what John was seeing.
It is also “possible”, even “likely”, I think, that John was speaking of the Dead Sea. The Dead Sea is on the Jordan fault line and through the years has experienced significant geological activity. On the banks of the Dead Sea are the ash remains of Sodom and Gomorrah which were destroyed by fire and brimstone (sulfur). The ash remains show that the brimstone (sulfur w/ traces of magnesium) burnt so hot that it reached over 6000 degrees farenheit. The Dead Sea has significant gas reserves under it which occasionally leak out resulting in fire on the water. And chunks of tar bubble up from the bottom of the lake, some chunks as large as a car. And John actually calls it “the lake of the fire and the brimstone”, which to me sounds very specific, likely referencing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
If John was referencing the Dead Sea, then this fits the vision of the Bride and the Spirit offering up “water” to anyone who is thirsty. I can only imagine the thirst that one would experience if he was cast into the Dead Sea or was even in the vacinity of the Dead Sea for any length of time. To me, the lake of the fire and the brimstone pictures eternal (age to come, heavenly, from God) judgment. When we encounter such judgment it creates in us a great overwhelming driving desire for the forgiveness, love, grace, and mercy of God (living water). We as believers have already began experiencing such judgment. (Judgment begins with the household of God.) We are already being purified by the presence and judgment of God. Frankly, the fire of God burns the hell out of us!
Paidion, if you wanna see a supporter of Conditional Immortality come the the same conclusions as on this thread, you may wanna look at Nathan Anderson’s Beautiful Hell Trilogy. Book 3 might be more specific to this topic. “Does Hell Really Last Forever”
amazon.ca/Does-Really-Foreve … n+anderson
I fine with the idea that the LOF may be God Himself. I use the illustration of farmers burning thier blueberry feilds. The burning destroys the thorns and thistles but the blueberries thrive.
Isaiah 33:14 - - “Who among us can dwell with the consuming fire?
Who among us can dwell with everlasting burnings?”
Isaiah 33:15 - - He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly