The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Matthew 10:28

hello all, I am, as you, a believer in Universal Reconciliation ( or whatever description you prefer). I say this so you know I am here to ask for an explanation of this verse in UR terms, not seeking to ‘argue’ about it as some might want to do. I do not know how to explain it in line with my beliefs that all men will be saved, except to suppose it is an ‘eonian’ punishment being referred to - I just want to be able to fit it into the proper perspective in my understanding that the Lord God wants all men to be saved.

I haven’t posted an ExCom entry on this yet (or its Lukan parallel), but we’ve discussed it quite a bit in some earlier threads. The main disagreements among us are (on one hand) whether it refers to Satan or to God, or (on the other hand) if it refers to God whether it only refers to the destruction of Jerusalem or (possibly also) to post-mortem punishment (in hades and/or the lake of fire).

My understanding (after a lot of analysis) is that it refers to God, but is meant as a point of ironic comparison: if you’re going to fear anyone, don’t fear the people who after they kill you can’t do anything else, but fear the one who not only can kill you but has the authority to cast both your soul and body into Gehenna (consolidating what is said in both reported incidents) – the one you’re supposed to be serving as a witness for whom those other people might be killing you or threatening you with death about.

However, there is no need to fear Him either, for He loves you and intends to do you good; if He loves even flowers which are here today and tomorrow are thrown into the fire (note the Gehenna parallel), how much more does He value you! – i.e. God isn’t going to just throw you away like trash hopelessly into a fire.

That might mean that God won’t in fact ever put both body and soul into Gehenna, even though He could and has the authority to do so (unlike the people you might be more afraid of); or it might mean that even if God “destroys” both body and soul in Gehenna He does it for some hopeful purpose that will do good to the one so destroyed, and not treating the person so punished like trash to be merely disposed of (or at best destroyed for the sake of other people).

Since both body and soul are mentioned, in contrast to only the destruction of the body, I infer it’s a warning about post-mortem punishment applicable to anyone before, during, or after Jesus’ day, down to our day and beyond, not merely a warning about the destruction of Jerusalem applicable only to people a generation later (and not even necessarily most of Jesus’ immediate audiences either way).

But like I said, we have some disagreements about that. :slight_smile:

well, thank you Jason… given me something to ponder on. Appreciate the time taken to give me a reply :slight_smile:

For a lot of recent discussion on this issue from a bunch of different angles (all by Christian universalists), you may also refer to this thread started by guest author Richard Beck:

ahh, helpful, have bookmarked and will have a peruse later -thanks again :slight_smile:

Several things I point out when discussing this passage:

  1. note that it doesn’t say that God “will” destroy, but that God “is able” to destroy the soul.
  2. note that the word “destroy” does not imply ECT, but would align more with annihilation, assuming God could not (Arminianism) or would not (Calvinism) save the person.
  3. note that the message of the passage is meant to encourage people to love God who loves them and to not be caught in the snare of fearing people. Jason pointed this out above.
  4. note that Jesus warns of one’s soul being destroyed in Hinnom Valley (Gehenna MISTRANSLATED as Hell). Hinnom Valley is not the mythical Hell, but is a real place with a real history, a very real scar, no, “Open Wound” on the racial memories of the 1st century Jew, Jesus’ audience. It spoke of the this life terrible judgment of God because of a level of wickedness we have difficulty imagining, a wickedness where people would literally sacrifice their own children to an idol, judgment that resulted in the destruction of their lives, their families, their temple, their city, their nation! So don’t fear man but fear God! And don’t “fear” Him but love Him because He loves you so much! So don’t live in fear but live in love! It’s a powerful message for all believers! But to twist it to somehow prove Hell is to pervert it and remove all of it’s power to free anyone from fear or to empower anyone to live in the love of God!