The Evangelical Universalist Forum

My first openly universalist sermon!

From my perspective, what’s really ironic about all of this is:

About four years ago, when I began to make some noise in our conservative baptist congregation about UR, the pastor caught wind of it, and rather than speaking to me directly about it, launched into a four week sermon series against his straw man version of universalism. You can imagine how that went. I remember on one of the two of those four weeks I actually attended, he had the audacity to bring up the issue of why the conservative baptist denomination came about. He said that it was due to a rift in missiology with the American Baptists (Northern Baptists at the time). They felt that the Northern Baptists had become too liberal with the universalistic views they held which was destroying what they felt should have been the proper motive for mission work! (Gotta save those souls from hell, you know) :unamused:

Now, I researched this some time later, because I smelled a rat (among several). Sure enough, the rift was actually over something other than universalism. IIRC, it was simply over how missions were done; no mention of liberal theology or universalism. But now with this having come up for Bob, I know for sure what our pastor said about this was bunk, because the American Baptist church, if it was ever universalist, clearly isn’t now!

Melchizedek, we’ve been American Baptists since before I was born 37 years ago and our church never espoused, welcomed, or leaned toward universalism. Not that this is important, but we did not dance. :laughing: Now that we’ve become universal reconciliationists we are definite lone rangers!They don’t like all eventually being reconciled anymore than any other denomination. They are very content with endless torture. :mrgreen: Ok, maybe not, but they feel they must be.

I’m pretty sure that the quality of the Sunday School class will degrade rather rapidly, and the fruit will be obvious. In the end; I believe your dad will be shown in the right.

That being said, I still believe this is his time to shine, an opportunity to embrace his greater field that he has been given.

Jesus said something akin once to; “what ever you give up for my sake, I will give back to you many times over” - your dad effectively had to give up a Sunday School class, and for what? Who knows what The Lord has in store to give as trade for a Sunday School of only ten people, but it will not be an empty chair, a quiet mouth, and a lonely pew seat that is for sure.

Yeah, I’ve never understood that whole “baptists not dancing” thing. :confused:

At any rate, I suspect our pastor has the tendency to “overstate” and/ or oversimplify things to make a point. But then the whole first sermon was a crock, (and the stuff that wasn’t completely missed the point; straw man FTW!). Even some of the people I’d talked to privately about UR (but remained unconvinced) noticed it.

Drew,
I’m sorry, I thought I had already responded to your initial post, but I haven’t. Anyhow, Great Job! I appreciated your thoughts on why Paul was accused of preaching a libertine gospel. And your conclusion was excellent! Keep up the good work!

I’m curious, how has the response been? Did it upset anyone?

Hi Sherman, No it didn’t upset anyone as far as I know. One of the home group leaders who is from a presbyterian background smiled, gave me a hug and said “What are we going to do about your theology?” I gave him a copy of “The EU” and he agreed to read. Only one other person said he disagreed with my inerpretation, but it was all friendly. Others received the message with joy and took away copies of “Love Wins” or “The EU” . Others have shown interest in joining this forum. So it is all good so far. Thanks for the encouragement and support. I have a lot of respect for you and hope we can met some day.

Hi Sherman,

As a member of Revdrew’s congregation let me at once assure everyone that I suspect that Andrew’s brave sermon may well have come as no surprise, as, knowingly or not, he has been leading us all up to this for well over a year! And speaking for myself (well my introduction to the forum a few days ago speaks for itself) let me just say here that quite literally I am jumping for joy!! I wld like to share with all you good and encouraging people, but as it’s well past midnight I guess I will just close this here, and later in the week will write a little more from notes made over the past year or so, so that you can see what an exciting time this has been here in Barcelona at St George’s.!!

Looking fwd, Andrew, to reading yr today’s sermon on yr blog!!!

Cheers and prayers to all!

Michael

Revdrew, excellent sermon! Thank you for your courage to deliver it. You are an inspiration. I hope other pastors and folks in positions of influence will soon follow your example.

God bless you.

-David

Drew, I’m so very glad that your congregation is so open and loving. That’s awesome! Good job in fostering that atmosphere, pastor!

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. I am very fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.

I’m so glad it’s going well for you Andrew. I think they are very fortunate to have you!!! When will you be coming to California? :smiley:

Great sermon Andrew and congratulations on turning 50. I do in January and although I haven’t preached or taught on UR I did read TEU without hiding it from my wife. That’s as bold as I have gotten. Believe me thought its taken a few years to get to this point. :laughing:

Amy I’m sure we will get to California at some stage. Billie has friends near San Diego.
Nimblewill: One step at a time! :slight_smile:

Stick with it Amy! Your Dad’s a brave man on what looks like a long term mission at your Church with its present board members.

With a cheer and a prayer for you all!

Michael

Really enjoyed and got a blessing from reading your sermon thanks RevDrew.
I wish turning 50 had made me as bold- may be 55, my next bday, will herald greater boldness!
I wish I’d known of your presence in Barcelona last year when my son was there- he’s not EU yet but a far greater Christian than myself and know he would have looked you up at my suggestion.
God bless and keep up the good work ! Cheers. S

Thanks for the encouragement Sturmy! I hope to meet you and your son someday. I pray that we will all grow in boldness and in love for those who see things differently.