Near Death Experiences

[Paul_Reilly]

@Jonny, can you please send me any lit you think may be helpful. I have the book Gay Christian 101 which is good. If a bit heavy. Cheers. thanks for your encouragement .

[Paul_Reilly]

i just bought the Rebutal and Thou shalt not love, from Amazon.com. Should be helpful.

[Cindy_Skillman]

Johnny,

I sent you an EU e-mail with my regular e-mail address, but I’m not sure I did it right. It didn’t show up in my “sent” box. Did you get it?

Thanks!
Cindy

[Username1]

Hi Cindy, hi Paul

Have sent private messages to both of you attaching the article I referred to in my previous post. Fingers crossed the technology works.

All the best

Johnny

[Cindy_Skillman]

Thanks, Johnny

Got it!

[sasha]

Hi – I’m new to this forum but just thought I’d add my two cents to this discussion.

Both anti-gay attitudes and ECT have (I believe) justifiably alienated a lot of people from the faith and this is truly something that needs to be effectively addressed. I personally (and again, I’m not gay – 100% straight) do not see how one’s orientation per se can be itself sinful. And furthermore, feeling like it is can I think cause, basically, mental illness. My sister is gay and when she told me I was sad (we didn’t have a family, so I had been fantasising about her and I having families) but I wasn’t surprised. She had always been very ‘masculine’ for want of a better word. At the age of 5 she took all over her money from her last birthday and walked to a main street near where we lived and had all of her extremely pretty hair cut very short so that she would look like she felt. How can that be sinful? It is who she is. Now living out that orientation has been really difficult – and I think in large part difficult because it has had to be lived outside any serious faith life. Heterosexual people too, of course, can misuse their sexuality – the orientation itself, cannot, it seems to me, be in and of itself, sin. That would mean a definition of sin that necessitates some serious revision. And what misery that belief has caused! I feel nothing but compassion for those who must feel like their sexuality, which is a big part of our sense of self, is in and of itself, inherently sinful, wrong, bad. Even if Paul meant something like that – he’s just plain wrong and I’m quite willing to burn for that! I don’t see how everything he said can be understood as infallible always. He was inspired, not inerrant.

Homosexuality occurs in nature, especially when populations become to large for their environment. It is one of the more benign ways for nature to control its birth rate.

I don’t’ see how one can change one’s orientation. I know I could not be homosexual – why are we implying that homosexuals can become heterosexual?

Christians, it seems to me, have de-evangelised with this issue and ECT too often in the past-- and caused so much torment. It must stop.

blessings,

[Sherman]

A very interesting testimony of a man who died, went to heaven, and came back.

cbn.com/700club/features/amazing/SW141_Dean_Braxton.aspx

He says that he realized “everything was right”. “Everything’s alive. Nothing is dead.” He was overwhelmed by the love of God. He did not receive a revelation of UR, but nothing he saw contradicts such. Cool testimony.

[Cindy_Skillman]

Love it, Sherman!

Thanks for posting this.

[Matt_Wiley]

Hi – I’m new to this forum but just thought I’d add my two cents to this discussion.

Both anti-gay attitudes and ECT have (I believe) justifiably alienated a lot of people from the faith and this is truly something that needs to be effectively addressed. I personally (and again, I’m not gay – 100% straight) do not see how one’s orientation per se can be itself sinful. And furthermore, feeling like it is can I think cause, basically, mental illness. My sister is gay and when she told me I was sad (we didn’t have a family, so I had been fantasising about her and I having families) but I wasn’t surprised. She had always been very ‘masculine’ for want of a better word. At the age of 5 she took all over her money from her last birthday and walked to a main street near where we lived and had all of her extremely pretty hair cut very short so that she would look like she felt. How can that be sinful? It is who she is. Now living out that orientation has been really difficult – and I think in large part difficult because it has had to be lived outside any serious faith life. Heterosexual people too, of course, can misuse their sexuality – the orientation itself, cannot, it seems to me, be in and of itself, sin. That would mean a definition of sin that necessitates some serious revision. And what misery that belief has caused! I feel nothing but compassion for those who must feel like their sexuality, which is a big part of our sense of self, is in and of itself, inherently sinful, wrong, bad. Even if Paul meant something like that – he’s just plain wrong and I’m quite willing to burn for that! I don’t see how everything he said can be understood as infallible always. He was inspired, not inerrant.

Homosexuality occurs in nature, especially when populations become to large for their environment. It is one of the more benign ways for nature to control its birth rate.

I don’t’ see how one can change one’s orientation. I know I could not be homosexual – why are we implying that homosexuals can become heterosexual?

Christians, it seems to me, have de-evangelised with this issue and ECT too often in the past-- and caused so much torment. It must stop.

blessings,

Amen, sis I agree

[Wendy]

Hi Paul

I am 100% gay! And i flirted with the idea of it not being a sin, got a few books to read on the subject which helped. But for the last few months i have lost that conviction, which i am not sure is a good idea. Because it just screwed up my mind with guilt. If it is wrong i can live with it but i would be happier if it wasn’t a sin. I’m confused about it really.

I just wanted to offer you a few words of encouragement and support.There is a wide, disgraceful and God-dishonouring streak of homophobia in the church, which in my opinion is almost entirely a reflection of people’s personal prejudices, not scriptural truth. My gay brother, David, while he is a good, kind person who believes in God, at the moment rejects the church completely because of its homophobic stance. He says he could never be a member of any group that condemns him simply for being what he is, a gay man. And I don’t blame him!

You say you are 100% gay, and that’s great, that’s cool. God made you that way, so personally I’m 100% sure He is cool with you being gay too. And unlike Cindy, I don’t believe the NT teaches that gay sex is a sin, although obviously it can be read that way - especially in translation. (Although Cindy, your post is kind, generous, beautiful and full of truth, and reflects your tender, God-like heart.) I think the Bible teaches that gay men and women should abide by the same ‘rules’ as straight Christians - ie committed, loving, monogamous relationships.

If you’re interested, I can email you a brilliant article written by a gay pastor of 28 years standing who has studied the scriptures in the original Greek. He makes a wholly convincing case that the tiny number of apparent references to homosexuality in the Bible (OT and NT) do not actually, when understood correctly, say that gay sex is a sin. If you’re interested in reading it, let me know or send me a private message and I can send it to you.

But whatever your *opinion *on scriptural interpretations, the facts are:

1. Jesus **never **said gay sex is a sin. In fact, He spoke not one single word on the subject - although of course, He often condemned adultery, a sin of which countless thousands of Christians are guilty.

2. God loves **all **His children equally (He is no respecter of persons, remember.) White or black, straight or gay, God loves us just the same.

3. Even if gay sex *is *a sin - which I do not believe it is - Jesus came to save sinners.

4. We are **all **sinners, and we **all **sin all the time. If God *does *convict your heart that gay sex is sinful (and as Cindy says, that is ultimately between you and God), it is no different from any other sin you might commit. I guess what I’m saying here is you mustn’t beat yourself up for it, or feel any more guilt or shame, than you might over any other sin you might commit.

So please don’t torture yourself, Paul. God loves you, and I’m sure He will bless you with a loving Christian partner.

I wish you every blessing, Paul, in Christ, who loves you.

Shalom

Johnny

Johnny can I get e copy of the article by the pastor, a link or email pm for email if you need it… thank you …

[Username1]

Hi Wendy

Here’s the article I mentioned in my post. To my shame I can’t remember where I got it from, hence I cannot give the author the credit he deserves. And in my opinion he deserves a lot of credit.

Peace and love

Johnny
Bible + homosexuality.doc (105 KB)