No Sin — a paradigm shift

[Origen]

@maintenanceman

If you look at Paul as an Apostle to the first century Christians, then yes, much of the ‘idea of sin’ is relevant. If you look at Paul as an Apostle to unending ages of folks who might happen upon His writings and take them as an admonition from God to them personally, I think it is balderdash, and to be specific, Paul being the so called Apostle to the Gentiles would not look very favorable on many of our modern lives if we consider what He had to say. Saying that, the ‘Presence’ point of view is interesting but in my estimation still simply trying to fit the narrative into our lives. I have much respect for the Kings, but the sour idea that somehow evangelical ideas still exist is obvious.

To your point qaz, sin has been done away with in the cosmic realm. You sin today, you will in this life deal with your choices. If you want to point at so called ‘sinners’ that seem to get away with sin, I would say you are naive. No one escapes the specter of death, and if your life if full of sin, your conscience will convict you at some point.

Is your POV re scripture Pantelism? I’ll ask the same questions i directed to Davo in another thread:

Davo, what (a) advantage and (b) consequences would there be in accepting your Pantelistic views as opposed to say, what Paidon or ECF Origen or Robin Parry or Christian Universalists believe?

If there are no afterdeath negative consequences for anyone, even the most wicked sinners, then what is going to motivate people to holy living?

If all prophecy is fulfilled, & all Scripture applies to those who are long dead, what significance, if any, does Scripture have for us today?

Is there any gospel for today? If so, what is this gospel? Are you motivated to share it with the lost?

Perhaps you’ld prefer to start a new thread in answering those questions.

Satan, a person or a personification?

Davo, what (a) advantage and (b) consequences would there be in accepting your Pantelistic views as opposed to say, what Paidon or ECF Origen or Robin Parry or Christian Universalists believe? If there are no afterdeath negative consequences for anyone, even the most wicked sinners, then what is going to motivate people to holy living? If all prophecy is fulfilled, & all Scripture applies to those who are long dead, what significance, if any, does Scripture have for us today? Is there any go…

[maintenanceman]

@Origen

what (a) advantage and (b) consequences would there be in accepting your Pantelistic views

It is an interesting point, David does a real good job at stating the position as far as the pantelistic view,

[maintenanceman]

@Origen

Is your POV re scripture Pantelism?

No, I tend to walk with David and the Pantelist view , but much of what you post is somewhat idealistically stupid. David has a coherent realistic view of scripture, you on the other hand are … well, we’ll see.

[davo]

@maintenanceman

@Origen

what (a) advantage and (b) consequences would there be in accepting your Pantelistic views

It is an interesting point, David does a real good job at stating the position as far as the pantelistic view,

Thanks Chad. Origen has asked those same questions before AND I’ve answered him… he didn’t accept my previous responses and nothing will have changed.

[maintenanceman]

@davo

Origen has asked those same questions before AND I’ve answered him

This is part of the problem, the ideas of afterlife and Gods place for us is very universal, in other words God in my and some folks view is that God Loves and has created all of us.

[maintenanceman]

@Origen

If all prophecy is fulfilled, & all Scripture applies to those who are long dead, what significance, if any, does Scripture have for us today?

This is an interesting position. First of all, Wisdom. Second of all, is you need to believe in the scriptures or not.

As we wade through the fall of Christianity, we will realize the understanding of everyday folks.

[Origen]

@davo

Origen has asked those same questions before AND I’ve answered him…

Davo,I don’t believe all my questions have even been asked before, let alone answered. Please provide references for where i can read your comprehensive answers to all of the following:

Davo, what (a) advantage and (b) consequences would there be in accepting your Pantelistic views as opposed to say, what Paidon or ECF Origen or Robin Parry or Christian Universalists believe?

If there are no afterdeath negative consequences for anyone, even the most wicked sinners, then what is going to motivate people to holy living?

If all prophecy is fulfilled, & all Scripture applies to those who are long dead, what significance, if any, does Scripture have for us today?

Is there any gospel for today? If so, what is this gospel? Are you motivated to share it with the lost?

Perhaps you’ld prefer to start a new thread in answering those questions.

[Origen]

@"davo

So there’s no “need to convert people” in Pantelism?

[davo]

…that’s right; the genuinely interested might consider these things.

[Origen]

@davo

…that’s right; the genuinely interested might consider these things.

So here you have admitted that in Pantelism there’s “no need to convert people”.

Why is that, davo? Is it because (1) there is no good news worth sharing? Or (2) because there are no after death negative consequences for serial killers, mass murderers, etc? Or (3) because you believe premortem life with faith can be worse than premortem life without faith? Or (4) the commission to evangelize the world was already fulfilled, along with all prophecy? Or (5) some combination of the aforementioned? Or (6) some other reason(s)?

I’m “genuinely interested”, though not with a view to “converting” to heresy, i.e. Pantelism.

[davo]

Number 7) your puerile posts aren’t worth my waste of time

[pilgrim]

@Origen

I’m “genuinely intereested”, though not with a view to “converting” to heresy, i.e. Pantelism.

Your genuine interest is, again, met with the only straight answer “puerile”. Nice.
Davo attacks evangelicalism and universalism (and constantly uses ad hominems) yet rides on the back of a “Evangelical Universalist” forum (worth bearing in mind) and he affirms that there is no need to convert people yet spends an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to convert all on this forum to pantelism.
As Chad would say --“Go figure”

[davo]

Since when does conversion need to be the basis for the contesting of ideas; unless you’re maybe feeling insecure

[maintenanceman]

@pilgrim

As Chad would say --“Go figure”

Well, as the phrase is put so shall the answer be, so pilgrim, I kind of like the idea of

@pilgrim

Davo attacks evangelicalism and universalism (and constantly uses ad hominems) yet rides on the back of a “Evangelical Universalist” forum

And this is a huge huge huge part of what is not only happening with evangelicals but also with all folks who see the religious caretakers as bullsh$ters.
And to be honest, I don’t see you crossing swords with him.

[maintenanceman]

I also see that my post was somehow hijacked. It is not the way I posted.

[Hermano]

? Then why not go back and edit it?

[Paidion]

@davo

Number 7) your puerile posts aren’t worth my waste of time

I think you’ve hit a nerve, Origen!

[maintenanceman]

@Hermano

? Then why not go back and edit it?

@Paidion

I think you’ve hit a nerve, Origen!

No, I believe there is a understanding that the evangelical mindset (God don’t you love the way I use that phrase) is absolutely bordering on religious bull sh1t. You all cling to your idea’s and your beliefs, and I appreciate that. But there are many here who have traveled beyond that and well… keep it. So we understand each other and maybe need to listen a bit more.