On Preterism, the Second Coming and Hell

[Ricky_13]

Found the book, thanks!!!

[Paidion]

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
(Matt 24:1,2 ESV)

This prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70. And that’s the extent of my preterism!

The next sentence:
As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?”

I believe the disciples were asking him about two different matters:

1. When will these things be? (that is, the destruction of the temple)
   and
2. What will be the sign of your coming and the close of the age? (A reference to the future second coming, and the close of this present age).

Like the Christians of the second century, I am what is now called “a historic pre-millenialist.” They taught the second coming of Christ as an event future to themselves, long after 70 A.D.

Since those who did that which is universally, naturally, and eternally good are pleasing to God, they shall be saved through this Christ in the resurrection equally with those righteous men who were before them, namely Noah, and Enoch, and Jacob, and whoever else there be, along with those who have known this Christ, Son of God, who was before the morning star and the moon, and submitted to become incarnate, and be born of this virgin of the family of David, in order that, by this dispensation, the serpent that sinned from the beginning, and the angels like him, may be destroyed, and that death may be contemned, and for ever quit, at the second coming of the Christ Himself, those who believe in Him and live acceptably,—and be no more. (Dialogue with Trypho, ch 45 [near the end])

For it was not merely for those who believed on Him in the time of Tiberius Cæsar that Christ came, nor did the Father exercise His providence for the men only who are now alive, but for all men altogether, who from the beginning, according to their capacity, in their generation have both feared and loved God, and practised justice and piety towards their neighbours, and have earnestly desired to see Christ, and to hear His voice. Wherefore He shall, at His second coming, first rouse from their sleep all persons of this description, and shall raise them up, as well as the rest who shall be judged, and give them a place in His kingdom. (Against Heresies, Book 4, Ch. 22, Sec 2)

[anon47460357]

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
(Matt 24:1,2 ESV)

This prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70. And that’s the extent of my preterism!

My preterism is pretty unusual. I learned the rudiments of it from Eugenio Corsini’s The Apocalypse: The Perennial Revelation of Jesus Christ and from N. T. Wright’s Jesus and the Victory of God. Of course, any conclusions I draw from their premises are my own.

I believe that passage was fulfilled in A. D. 30. I do not think Jesus was talking about the architectural temple, but rather about His own body (John 2:19-21). In other words, that passage refers to Christ’s death and resurrection.

I think the key to understanding the Olivet Discourse in all three Synoptic Gospels is how we understand the words “the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” in Matthew 24:30. When we consult Daniel 7:13-14 we see that the Son of Man comes from the earth below up to the Father above, using the same language Christ used in Matthew 24:30. In other words, the coming of the Son of Man in the Olivet Discourse refers to Christ’s ascension into Heaven in A. D. 30. The entirety of the Olivet Discourse, then, refers to events starting with Christ’s earthly ministry and culminating in the descent of the Holy Spirit on the 120 on Pentecost in A. D. 30.

The only thing in the Bible that I believe is future to us is the Second Coming of Christ, and I believe this glorious, future event is mentioned only in Acts and in some of the Epistles.

When shall the Second Coming occur? Nobody knows, and nobody can ever have even the faintest inkling of a clue. We can’t even date it to the nearest billion years.

[davo]

The title of the book actually is: This Book will Change your World, by Kevin Beck.

Ah yes Ricky, sorry my bad, bad memory (like 7yrs ago)… I realised I had Kevin’s book (in pdf) when I googled it and saw the cover on Amazon. ** Here it is** for anyone to read.

[anon47460357]

I am what is now called “a historic pre-millenialist.”

Out of curiosity, what is your position on the Tribulation? My hunch is that you are a post-tribulationalist, but I could easily be wrong.

(My understanding of the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21 is that it refers to Christ’s Passion and Crucifixion.)

[maintenanceman]

The title of the book actually is: This Book will Change your World, by Kevin Beck.

Ah yes Ricky, sorry my bad, bad memory (like 7yrs ago)… I realised I had Kevin’s book (in pdf) when I googled it and saw the cover on Amazon. ** Here it is** for anyone to read.

thanx

[davo]

I think the key to understanding the Olivet Discourse in all three Synoptic Gospels is how we understand the words “the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” in Matthew 24:30. When we consult Daniel 7:13-14 we see that the Son of Man comes from the earth below up to the Father above, using the same language Christ used in Matthew 24:30. In other words, the coming of the Son of Man in the Olivet Discourse refers to Christ’s ascension into Heaven in A. D. 30. The entirety of the Olivet Discourse, then, refers to events starting with Christ’s earthly ministry and culminating in the descent of the Holy Spirit on the 120 on Pentecost in A. D. 30.

Full prêterism (or as a cheeky chap once quipped to me “fool-prêterism” ) wouldn’t really argue with that BUT to say, THAT is fully inclusive within the event… ultimately culminating then with Christ’s AD70 Parousia “in the glory of the Father”. And thus “these things” (the Temple) and “the close of the age” (the Mosaic age/world, i.e., being ALL that the Temple stood for) WERE INDEED one and the SAME thing; there was NO schizophrenia happening here.

Anyway… check out that free e-book above as it makes a good argument, IMO.

[davo]

This prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70. And that’s the extent of my preterism!

Praise God Paidion… you’re on your way!! Never quibble at the day of small beginnings.

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

@davo

@Paidion

This prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70. And that’s the extent of my

preterism!
Praise God Paidion… you’re on your way!! Never quibble at the day of small beginnings.

[maintenanceman]

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
(Matt 24:1,2 ESV)

This prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70. And that’s the extent of my preterism!

My preterism is pretty unusual. I learned the rudiments of it from Eugenio Corsini’s The Apocalypse: The Perennial Revelation of Jesus Christ and from N. T. Wright’s Jesus and the Victory of God. Of course, any conclusions I draw from their premises are my own.

I believe that passage was fulfilled in A. D. 30. I do not think Jesus was talking about the architectural temple, but rather about His own body (John 2:19-21). In other words, that passage refers to Christ’s death and resurrection.

I think the key to understanding the Olivet Discourse in all three Synoptic Gospels is how we understand the words “the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” in Matthew 24:30. When we consult Daniel 7:13-14 we see that the Son of Man comes from the earth below up to the Father above, using the same language Christ used in Matthew 24:30. In other words, the coming of the Son of Man in the Olivet Discourse refers to Christ’s ascension into Heaven in A. D. 30. The entirety of the Olivet Discourse, then, refers to events starting with Christ’s earthly ministry and culminating in the descent of the Holy Spirit on the 120 on Pentecost in A. D. 30.

The only thing in the Bible that I believe is future to us is the Second Coming of Christ, and I believe this glorious, future event is mentioned only in Acts and in some of the Epistles.

When shall the Second Coming occur? Nobody knows, and nobody can ever have even the faintest inkling of a clue. We can’t even date it to the nearest billion years.

I tend to be with you with a few small caveats, I am of the faith that the second coming, as told in the gospels, has done been done. But your focus on the cross is absolutely inspirational, and thanks.

[davo]

The ‘covenant eschatological’ perspective views the Cross and Parousia as God’s ONE time redemptive intervention in history, and as such sees these as bookends to this event in terms of the Cross being the DECISIVE event and the Parousia being the CULMINATING event.

[Ricky_13]

Thanks Davo.