As most of you know, I’m new to both these forums and Christian Universalism. I do not have much background in the doctrine aside from the deep hopes I’ve held in my heart for many years.
I am petrified of Hell. Absolutely petrified. Throughout the day, I am trying to ward off thoughts about condemnation and eternal damnation (for me, my family, my friends, and for the world), and eventually my sound mind goes out the window and is replaced by complete panic, incapable of thinking logically. Thoughts of Hell have really tainted my relationship with God; I waver endlessly between confiding in Him as my best friend and completely fearing His existence. I feel terrible even writing those words, because in my mind, the “scary god” usually wins over the perfect Heavenly Father I truly hope is there instead.
I feel the idea of Hell has completely scarred my soul. This terror has been with me since I was around six-years-old and heard Christians talking about the “demonic nature” of Halloween. I’ve held an intense fear of Hell that doesn’t seem to affect most Christians, which is especially strange because my family never painted God as a merciless judge but rather as a loving Father.
Have any of you struggled with fears like these? What thoughts have offered you comfort in the past and enabled you to overcome a gripping fear of Hell? Any comforting words are greatly appreciated.
I can understand your fears. They are honest fears that come as a result of the doctrine of infernalism. It presents a picture of God being schizophrenic, loving, gracious, merciful and forgiving in Jesus, but angry and unforgiving in God. Several things come to mind that I think would be an encouragement to you. One being the Psalms; I find great comfort in the Psalms, reading them out loud and committing them to memory. Of course, Ps. 23 is classic along with Ps. 91. I also encourage you to meditate upon Rom.5, vs. 18 particularly, and Col. 1, vs. 20 in particular, as well as the many other verses that affirm universal salvation. Faith comes from hearing (embracing fully) the word of God.
Also, just being open with your fears, bringing them to the light, helps to dispell them. As scripture says, “Confess your faults/struggles to each other so that you might be healed.”
God is not schizo! He loves you. He loves us all. And Jesus is the perfect revelation of who God is, His character and love for us.
I’ve also recently reread The Shack. If you haven’t read it, I encourage you to do so. And I’m going through again Talbott’s The Inescapable Love of God, if you haven’t read it, PLEASE DO, and if you have, it surely wouldn’t hurt to read it again.
God loves you dearly. You are the apple of His eye, the treasure that the man found hid in a field and sold all he had to buy, the pearl of great price that the man sold all he had to buy, the lost sheep/goat that the shepherd would not give up looking for until he found, the gold coin that the woman would not stop searching for until found, the child that the father would not stop looking for until he came home! You are loved, especially loved by our Father! Love casts out fear! God does not give us a spirit of fear, but of strength, love, and sound thinking! Know that you are loved by our father and by us, your brothers and sisters.
But at least you have the integrity of spirit to have faced up to this as a young woman instead of waiting years and years and even decades. A good friend of mine (a sister in our home fellowship) shares your fear. She was raised in an AoG church, and apparently they’re always afraid maybe they aren’t still on the straight and narrow. I on the other hand grew up in a Methodist church where hell scarcely if ever got a mention. My mom bought me the SDA bible story series – the one with all the beautiful artwork, which I absolutely adored! – and their version of “hell” of course is annihilation. So I grew up unsure as to whether hell was as it appeared in the actual scriptures or was mercifully short. It never even occurred to me everyone might be saved in the end.
First I want to share my story with you, and as I’ve already posted it to my blog, I’ll give you the link to the first installment. journeyintotheson.com/2011/1 … l-odyssey/ Just click through at the top or bottom right of each post, and if I have unrelated posts interspersed feel free to ignore them. You won’t have any trouble finding the ones you want, and I try to keep all my posts to between 500 and 1000 words. I think reading long posts on-line is, well, almost hell. That’s what Kindles are for! Much easier on the eyes.
I’ve read quite a few works of authors (many I respect deeply) trying to “disprove” UR (or Kath, as Jason calls us), but I haven’t found any I couldn’t refute, and most of them easily. I had no idea that “hell” rested on such paper-thin foundations. Please feel free, free, free to give us your most troubling questions and don’t worry that we might be stumped. If we are, then we are, and we all want the truth after all. So if hell should turn out to be real, it’s best to know it and get on with things. But I’ve been looking for reasons for a year and a half now and haven’t found any. I spent most of my life believing something that has essentially no scriptural support. It was all smoke and mirrors and a handful of bad translations. Incredible that I should have been so taken in – except that I can’t deny it did happen!
Now as to actual flames, I now see our literal interpretation of this picture as laughable. Did you read Amelia Bedelia when you were a kid? We’re like her. When the mistress says “Prepare a shower for my friend who is getting married,” poor Amelia, a died in the wool literalist, can’t imagine why she’s to do such a thing. Nevertheless, trusting what the mistress has instructed her to do, she douses the shocked young lady with a shower from the garden hose. Imagine us thinking that God is a giant chicken. (“I long to gather you as a hen gathers her chickens.”) Or a high tower. Or that He desires a sexual encounter with Israel. Or that He has feathers. Or that He is in fact nothing at all but a consuming fire. These things are all metaphors, and the fires of hell are also metaphorical. Otherwise from whence does Jesus pull His sometime description of hell as an outer darkness; the maidens left out of the wedding feast?
I see in the description of the lake of fire a link to the bronze laver where the priests washed themselves to purify their persons preparatory to entering the holy place. Bronze symbolizes judgment, in case you haven’t run across that yet. And think of Paul’s mention of the “washing of water of the word,” which also shows us what is in us (“like a man looking into a glass who sees what manner of man he is . . .” (James)), giving us the opportunity to change and be cleansed.
What we are cleansed of is not our sins. Nothing we could do could atone for our own sins; Jesus did that if it needed doing. No, what happens is the death that we as believers in Christ have all experienced and are experiencing as we die to the flesh. For those of us who follow Him in this life (and I expect for some others as Emeth in Lewis’ The Last Battle), this happens in this mortal life. For others who cleave to the earthly kingdom and its master, the death to the flesh will occur in the afterlife – whenever this begins, whether at physical death or at the second resurrection to judgment. In either case salvation is only and always through Christ, who defeated the earthly kingdom of the flesh and the chains of death. The way to life is through death to that kingdom – which Paul refers to as the law of sin and death – and resurrection into the kingdom of the Son of God’s love (Col 1).
The thing that Jesus died to save us from is not hell, and it is not our loving Father. Hell as we have conceived of it does not exist and our Father not only desires but actively WILLS that all men (people) be saved. Jesus died to set us free from the law of sin and death. Sin leads to death, and we on our own cannot help sinning because we are enslaved to this world of the flesh. Our bodies have taken charge of our spirits and we need it to be turned right side up with our spirits (under King Jesus) ruling over our bodies. The flesh is not an evil thing, except when it rules. Even our fleshly bodies will be adopted in God’s time (Ro 8) and become the willing and wonderful abode of our spirits. Yes we are unified beings and not collections of parts (body, soul, spirit), but these facets of our beings must be in order. It was the flesh (including intellect) that was elevated when Adam and Eve ate from the wrong tree. Now we must die to that and enter into life by eating from the right tree – that is, the Tree of Life which is Christ.
Our Father will lose none of that which is His, and ALL is His. He is a good enough Artist; a good enough Artisan; a good enough Father and Mother and Husband to us that He is fully able to save all that He has created. And He wills to save it. And what’s more, He can do it without violating freedom of will and turning us all into robots. He can do this because He is extraordinarily persuasive; because no person given free will and sufficient information and rationality will ever choose for all eternity that which causes him misery; because He HAS all eternity in which to persuade even the most unpersuadable of persons.
Now I know you have many questions and probably not a few “problem” scriptural passages. Please don’t hold off asking for fear you’ll find this or that passage to be the ONE that necessitates an eternal hell. There aren’t any passages like that, and the vast preponderance of scripture points in the exact opposite direction – toward peace and joy and love.
I’m so sorry too, and haven’t really much to add to Sherman’s and Cindy’s wise words.
What an awful burden for someone as charming as you, and with such promise to carry. I can only say that I felt just like you when I was nineteen, and it was terrible; and there seemed nothing much that anyone could say to persuade me otherwise. But by God’s grace, and slow process my heart was persuaded otherwise. And it will happen for you too – perhaps slowly, or perhaps by sudden illumination – it will happen. And we are your friends –
Blessings
You know – what you say about hearing something as a child resonates with me too. I remember being about seven and coming home from school and seeing some school friends on the step outside our flats with listless terror in their eyes (they’d been threatened with hell). That made a huge impression on me like the Halloween stuff did on you I guess. But even though I trace that as one memory that was a bad seed, I think that our lives and our faith are not set in stone because of memories/experiences that have influenced us badly. And always be aware that what you describe – whatever the causes – may be instances of panic attacks and/ or depression which you could get help with (simple cognitive exercises help a lot of people for instance).
A final thought – Jesus did pronounce ‘woes’, but these were against the self righteous who set boundaries on the Kingdom of Heaven that excluded people (he was unmasking the sate of wrath in their souls from which they needed saving). He never threatened children.
I have found that when people begin to understand that trinitarian theism involves an eternally committed action toward fulfilling fair-togetherness between persons, instead of treating it as merely involving technical facts about God in distinction from other theisms, then they become far more uniquely assured that God will faithfully persist in saving our loved ones from sin (which was rarely an emotional problem for me) as well as in saving our enemies from sin (which was frankly much more of an emotional problem for me. I’m a naturally stabby person at heart. )
That understanding isn’t at all easy to achieve–trinitarian theism is a large and difficult technical set of doctrines–and it can’t be of any help to non-trinitarians. So that isn’t a path for everyone.
But put simply, it means that God is essentially love in His own eternal self-existence, so even when He opposes what people do He does so because He loves them and will not stop acting to lead them to supportively love other persons, too, in everything they do.
He can stop doing wrath. He cannot stop doing love. (Not without choosing to cease to exist, which we can be sure won’t happen or else we wouldn’t be around to talk about the technical possibility of it.) His positive justice is the fulfillment of love between persons.
Some people here are what we call ultra-universalists, and don’t believe in any punishment coming from God at all (or not after death at least). If they’re right, there’s even less reason to be afraid of hell. But it still comes down to what kind of God is true, and so ought to be believed in.
Being a purgatorial universalist instead, I find that far from being afraid of hell now (even a little) I pray to God against my sins to punish me as much as He sees necessary. It isn’t that I’m looking forward to punishment, but if I’m going to be afraid I should be more afraid of being unjust to other people, or of my pride, or any other sin. Ideally I ought to be willing to go to hell to be free from my sins.
That sounds weird, and it can be an unhealthy emotional obsession, too; but in its healthy form it isn’t any different from the feeling we have when we love someone so much that we feel torments when we do anything even slightly unfair to them, or feeling that the slightest sin against them is inexcusably damnable. It isn’t that this is technically true–although strictly speaking any sin in itself is damnably unforgivable; it is people who are entirely forgivable. But we aren’t expected to be busy about forgiving ourselves. We’re supposed to be busy being fair to other people and forgiving them of their sins against us (even if we have to delay that until they repent).
Anyway, boring theology is one way to stop feeling fear. But love is a better way.
I really want to chime in on this, as it’s something that really hits close to home for me, but things have been a little hectic in the last few days… hopefully I can throw in my two cents sometime soon, maybe this coming weekend.
Thanks, everyone, for such kind answers. You all have no idea how much I appreciate your writing such thoughtful words of encouragement for me, a virtual stranger to these boards.
Sherman:
Yes, I’ve always loved Romans 5:18, and that verse gave me one of my first sparks of hope for Universal Salvation. I love the parallelism in the verse: “Yes, Adam’s one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ’s one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone” (Romans 5:18). Quite simply, Adam’s sin equals commendation for* everyone* (a fact no Christian would argue), so why can’t Christ’s death equal life for everyone?
I haven’t read The Shack or The Inescapable Love of God. I looked for The Inescapable Love of God at my library, but it looks like I’ll have to order the e-book or buy from Amazon. Either way, I do hope to read both, as I’ve heard good things about them.
And thank you for the comforting words. They mean a lot.
Cindy:
Thank you for sharing your story and directing me to your website, as I’ve enjoyed reading that, too. I especially liked your inclusion of C.S. Lewis’ description of hell and discovering that perhaps he was a closet Universalist. (I always knew he was my favorite author for a good reason!) Actually, I think I may have stumbled upon your website a few times before I even visited these forums–as I was initially researching Christian Universalism. Small world!
Haha, I remember reading Amelia Bedelia in second grade. And I think you’re right–God is nothing like Amelia Bedelia.
I especially like this. Wonderfully said! It reminds me of a quote by Betty J. Eadie that I will have to post later.
And, yes, I have quite a few “problem” verses, and I will surely annoy you all with those in a bit. I am so new to Universalism, and it hasn’t quite sunk in. I don’t want to lose the joy of this newfound hope too quickly by delving too deep into theology. But, yes, the questions are coming!
And that is a wonderful, wonderful thing! For any one word of seeming despair, it seems God offers 1000 promises of definite hope.
Professor:
Firstly, thank you for saying “charming.” No one has ever called me charming before, and that made me smile. You are charming, too, and I can’t resist saying that in my best attempt at a British accent. I’m glad you were persuaded otherwise about trusting God’s infinite love, and I believe the process is slowly occurring for me, too. It’s baby steps–two steps forward and then one step back–but I’m getting there.
Jason:
Thank you for your insightful input. Truthfully, some of it went over my head, but I’m sure I’ll come to understand it soon after I read more about Universalism!
I did especially like this point. It reminded me that God is love, so any decision he makes must be purely love, as well. Anything otherwise would go against the entire nature of God. That is greatly comforting.
Matt:
I would love to hear your two cents, but if things are quite busy, I completely understand. Most days, it seems I’m so busy, I can hardly remember to tie my shoes! Hearing that this issue hits close to home for you is quite comforting, in itself. I always helps to have company.
I understand. I hate that if I’m wrong about God, I could go to hell. I don’t mind being wrong. I just hate the severe consequences of it. I realize its a fear that was drilled into my DNA. Its not grounded, but it is still a struggle. Hugs to you as we’re on this journey together!
Whew!!! I thought I accidentally deleted this in my newbie moderator clumsiness. Okay I have officially successfully split this topic. I am so relieved. The new location for the threads I split off is “EUs Arminis and Calvs – OH MY!!” and here’s the link: EUs, Arminis & Calvs -- OH MY!!!
That’s what Kindles are for! Much easier on the eyes.
Okay I have officially successfully split this topic. 
I am so relieved. The new location for the threads I split off is “EUs Arminis and Calvs – OH MY!!” and here’s the link: