Robert, yep, I had a very similar impression, but have come to expect that the person holding the minority view is apt to draw the most questions or fire, and I appreciated that Robin was treated more graciously than is often the case.
Ran, Of course I agree that God is faithful and that every tongue will confess, but you are correct to intuit that I find that the apostles are repeatedly concerned about the dangers of unrepentant choices, even in believers.
Your response that “No,” this is a wrongful concern is consistent with the respected theology that you reiterate. I comprehend that it binds you to that conclusion, but systems of theology are not what ultimately is my interest here. My focus is on understanding the Biblical texts I’ve cited and their warnings concerning apostasy.
Bob, is God being faithful in not counting men’s sins against them? Or that by Christ’s righteousness all men are made righteous?
It’s the Gospel that advances Christ’s Kingdom. Confusion over the Gospel hinders that advance. You continue to confuse our duties and responsibilities as messengers with the essential message which, in turn, creates other messengers. Change the message and his kingdom will not be advanced.
Check out the free podcasts- they are very gracious to their opponents who appear on nearly every show!
If you have time, check out the recent one about Hindus and Christians and let me know what your impressions are if you have time and interest?
Ran,
How dost thou readest thus?
Hebrews 12 :14, “Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord.”
Everyone will be salted with fire. Do we have a choice in that?
“Follow after” is an imperative, “will be” sounds passive. Notice he says that without this thing that we are to “follow after” we will not see God!
14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one misses the grace of God
Not: ‘See to it that on one misses your self-righteousness.’
No one said that, Ran. Don’t put words in my mouth, please.
I seem to take a lot of heat for reiterating the grace of God in his terms.
“Yes, but it only seems like grace.” Is the argument back. “You have to do this or that to earn it.”
The Gospel gets buried in a thousand ways. What I am saying is that if you can’t state it and stand fast - what the hell good are ya?
Who said anything about earning? Putting words in my mouth again, bro.
Ran,
FWIW, I perceive your approach to dialogue as unable to recognize that you communicate at least as much “heat” as Roofus or I have bestowed on you. Rather than offer an alternative interpretation of the Scriptures we present, you appear to instead offer judgments as whose character is “good” enough to be accepted. To add insult to injury, you often state that we hold condemnable beliefs that we have not espoused, nor hold.
My sense of Christianity is that we embrace the One who tells us that such judgment is not our role (Matt. 7). Since only Christ is in a position to be our gracious judge, we need to be careful of usurping His role with those who interpret God’s Word differently from us.
Have you had any developments on the employment front? My wife and I are keeping your need in our prayers.
Grace be with you,
Bob
Bob and Ran,
A really good example that I have found of showing “gentleness and reverence” has been the radio show that Robin Parry was on (Unbelievable- Premier Radio). This is modeled far too infrequently in my experience. Check out some of their dialogues with atheists, Mormons, Muslims, etc. It’s really a blessing to see love in action in the context of dialogue.
Blessings to you both,
R
Robert, thanks for the tip! I too was blessed by the gracious tone of the one “Unbelievable” program called to our attention, and I would indeed look forward to sampling more of them.
I love both you guys in spite of my shortcomings. I do, however, see both of you mixing law and gospel to a point where the gospel is nullified (as always happens). Did Christ take away the sins of the world? Or not?
Is the Good News too good to be believed?
Why does anyone have to “believe” it? You are adding a human action here.
We are made in such a way to believe it, see it, understand it, and confess it sooner or later. It’s our destiny as human beings.
Ran,
I appreciate your kind words and clarification. I take it that for you law and gospel are simply antithetical, and thus those who seek to take them both seriously reject the gospel by “mixing” them.
As I’ve often said, Luther’s insightful interpretation of this deserves respect, but most Christian traditions do not formulate the Bible’s approach to law & gospel this way. Jesus once pungently inquired, “The law, HOW do you read it?” I’ve tried to present many passages which seem to contradict Luther’s formulation, and I think that accusing those who understand Jesus and Paul differently as those who simply “don’t believe the gospel” may not add any insight into why you and they are convinced that these passages are saying something different.
Why are we told to: “make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one misses the grace of God”. Sounds like we are asked for effort here?
Should I not make every effort?